"He’s going to lie, we’re going to judge!"

[00:00:08] Speaker A: Welcome to Shut up and Ride podcast. We are back. We are band is back together since we were in person recording in the pub pod back in the uk. First of all, shout out to our amazing sponsors, Charles Owen, who basically make us look good when we're riding horses. And. And they are wonderful and we love them. And if you haven't got a hat or haven't had your hat check recently, go and do it. Go and check out Charles Owen. I actually influenced someone the other day, guys, because she was like, I need to buy a new hat. So I made her go and get a Charles Owen one and she got a blue sparkly one and she looks amazing. I digress. Anyway, we're back together. There's so much to talk about. I don't even know where to start, but. Hi, boys. [00:00:48] Speaker B: So long. It's been so long. I've missed you guys. [00:00:52] Speaker A: Have you? Actually, you've been swanning it off in fucking Africa. You haven't missed us at all. [00:00:57] Speaker B: Well, it feels like it was Africa. Feels like ages ago now. Like ages ago. [00:01:02] Speaker A: I want to hear about that, Simon, but I feel like we feel very privileged, Benjamin, because we were getting messages as George was going into labor and then C section and everything. We were like, he's actually sending us selfies. Like we. What is going on? [00:01:20] Speaker B: It was. It was really cool. I felt very involved. [00:01:23] Speaker A: I did as well. So, first of all, congratulations. You had a baby. [00:01:28] Speaker C: Thank you very much. I didn't really. Well, I didn't really do much in the whole having of the baby area. [00:01:33] Speaker B: Your support, your support. [00:01:35] Speaker C: Yeah, I was like one of those really loud mums, unaffiliated, show jumping at the sidelines. That was. That was my job. No, it was. It was amazing. George was. George was incredible. It was. Yeah, it was a very chaotic 21 hours of labor, bless her, that culminated in an emergency C section at the end. So, yeah, it was maybe more exciting than we would have liked it. Liked it to be. But mum, like, like, you know, mum, as in George is. Is real happy and healthy. Actually, George, today, because this is how long it's been since we've recorded, guys, he's four weeks old now. He was four weeks old on Friday. And today George worked her first horse again, only on the floor. She didn't ride, but she's. She's been back to it. And yet he's just a little dream, really. I mean, he's the hairiest baby in the world. That might sound like such a strange thing to say, but not only was he born with, like, A full, luscious head of hair. He's got, like, hairy shoulders and a hairy back, which is like. Like black hair on his shoulders and back. I was like, I'm 31 and I don't even have hair on my shoulders and back. Like, where is this from? [00:02:55] Speaker A: You struggle to grow a beard, let's face it. [00:02:57] Speaker C: Yeah, I struggle to grow. I get. I get more of like a. Not a five o' clock shadow, more like the arena's dusty mud mark on my face. But he. Yeah, he's just been amazing. And honestly, he's been so easy. It's like having a little pink Tamagotchi at the moment, really, bless him. [00:03:15] Speaker A: Hairy Tamagotchi. [00:03:17] Speaker B: That's so cool, because he eats in [00:03:20] Speaker C: poops and sleeps, and that's about it. [00:03:23] Speaker A: Okay. I can't think you can compare. My kids both got Tamagotchis for Christmas because apparently they're making a comeback and I couldn't keep those two fuckers alive and I've kept kids alive, so actually, I think he's probably easier than a Tamagotchi. And my daughter lost hers and it started beeping at 1 o' clock in the bloody morning and. And it was like being woken up by a child. Could we find it? It was under her mattress. I do not like Tamagotchi, so please don't compare wild to one, because quite frankly, I want to love wild. [00:03:49] Speaker C: Well, luckily, if he beeps in the middle of the night, then we can find him. We know where he is, so that's good. We've not misplaced him yet, but. No. And it's just been, I think, like, do you know how in really, like. How do I word this? Because obviously it's not a bad time. It's an amazing time, but at the beginning, it's quite hard, like, you know what I mean? Like, 24 hours after he'd been sort of cut out of George. Which also, can I just say, side note, when it's an emergency C section, probably for all C sections, I'm sure it's like this. There's just a little curtain up, right? Like, so can you. [00:04:28] Speaker B: Can you just explain to me. I'm really. I'm obviously really stupid, but, like, why do you need emergency. An emergency Caesarean, Is there. Is it the. Lots of different reasons or. [00:04:37] Speaker C: So basically where he thought, like, the exit was, wasn't. So with every contraction, when George's body, like, squished him to try and squeeze him out like a tube of toothpaste, it was just pushing him into the side, basically. He'd kinked his head and neck and so was just being pushed into the side. And so as everything was contracting behind him, he couldn't breathe. So his heart rate, which was normally throughout the pregnancy, is average between 130 and 160 dropped all the way to 80, which basically. [00:05:14] Speaker B: Trying to come out through his shoulder. [00:05:15] Speaker C: Yeah. And so they were like. He wasn't like the surgeon. [00:05:20] Speaker A: His first 20 meter circle. [00:05:22] Speaker C: Yeah, he had good inside flexion, but he went. When the surgeons got him out, they said, there is no way. They were like, there's no way you'd have pushed him out. And he was massive baby as well. He was £9. [00:05:38] Speaker A: Jesus. Big boy. My vagina just contracted a little bit. [00:05:42] Speaker B: Poor George. Poor George. It must have been absolute agony. [00:05:46] Speaker C: Yeah, she was in like, which. That was the bit that freaked me out the most, really, like, because anybody, like. So I was just gonna say George is like rock hard. Like, she is like 10 men. You know, she. I've seen her get kicked in the face, shooing, you know, blood coming out of her nose, just spit and carry on. And this woman who I've always seen as just rock solid, she was just in bits. She was just in absolute agony. And so that immediately sort of clued me in that something was wrong because that's not like her. And then obviously everyone in hospital around you is like, no, no, like, this is normal. And then eventually, as the heart rate was dropping and dropping, that was scary as well because they were like, oh. So the heart rates were appearing really low on screen. So on the, on the monitor. So we're just going to get a different monitor. So they got a new monitor and the heart rate continued to drop. So they were like, we don't think it's the monitor, we think it's the cables. So they've got new cables. Heart rate keeps dropping. Okay, so we're going to put the sensor on. On him inside her and that will give us. [00:06:56] Speaker A: Oh, I have that. That's awful. They stick it to them. They poke it up you and stick it on. It's horrible. [00:07:01] Speaker C: Oh, it looked like the most horrific, horrible needle. I've never been so glad to have been born male in my life as watching all these various horrible instruments being used. [00:07:12] Speaker A: I know you're trying to get something out of you and they're insisting on putting more things in you. It's like, Jesus Christ. [00:07:19] Speaker C: And yeah, when they got the sensor on him, they were like, oh, no, his heart rate really is low. And then literally from the moment the sensor was on him and they realized the heart rate was really low, a surgeon burst into the room like, five minutes later. We signed some pieces of paper, and within like, 10, 15 minutes, we had him. So it was. Yeah. [00:07:40] Speaker A: I love the fact that within that time, though, you managed to send us a selfie of you in Scrubs. Well done. [00:07:47] Speaker C: I was pretending to be House. [00:07:49] Speaker B: You look like a real professional in it as well. [00:07:51] Speaker C: It was good. [00:07:52] Speaker A: Look, I feel like there's some kind of liberty, like, performance of you and scrubs at some point. [00:07:58] Speaker C: Well, I think every you say that there's, like, funny that I managed to message you guys, but actually, one thing I will say is that, like, the dad is the. It's the thirdest of third wheels, to be honest, in that situation. Because George is trying to get the baby out and I can't offer her an epidural or painkillers or any knowledge. And so I was just like, oh, lots of time. But, yeah. [00:08:25] Speaker A: What kind of things were you saying during that time? What was your kind of go to? [00:08:31] Speaker C: My go to? I was, I'll be okay. I'll be completely honest. And I know how George's sort of temperament was works. And I thought of some girls who I know, who I will not name, but girls who I know that she's not particularly fond of that have already given birth. And so when George was saying to me, I can't do it, I was like, yeah, well, so and so's done it, haven't they? And she was like, you're bloody right. Like, if she can do it, I can do it. And because I. It might have been the weirdest from the outside to anybody else, but I knew for her, if I'd been like, it's okay, darling, she'd have been like, shut the up. Whereas, because I was like, no, come on, they did it. You can do it. And she's like, you're bloody right, I can. So, yeah. And massaging one of her feet really hard, just the left one. I wasn't allowed to touch the right foot, but she was like, massage my foot. Yeah. So wow. But it was just amazing, like. And I posted that picture on my Facebook of him holding my finger, like, immediately. Because, like I say, she's laid on this table, and if you imagine just below her bust, they put a curtain up so she can't see. They numb her from there down. And I'm stood over this bed on one side of the curtain is my smiling wife chatting away, because obviously now she's got all the drugs in the world. And on the other side, this obscenely large hole has been cut into her stomach and, like, held open by clamps, as there are three different people with their hands inside her pulling out the baby and cutting through things and, like. Yeah, like. [00:10:13] Speaker B: So you're quite good with blood. Blood, then. All that kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. Where you thought, I'm gonna pass out or anything like that? [00:10:19] Speaker C: No. There was a moment where George and I had a good giggle, and every surgeon and anaesthetist in that room was mortified because when they cut her open and pulled the. Like, the hole really wide, I said, oh, darling, I knew I was right. You are as beautiful on the inside as you are on the outside. To which me and George found absolutely hilarious. And no one else in the room really, really got it at all. But. [00:10:47] Speaker B: But, yeah, it would not be heard that before, but they definitely. Probably haven't heard that one before. [00:10:51] Speaker C: No, if it was you. If you were squeamish, it wouldn't be like, you know what I mean? Like, when you could see the edges of her stomach with, like, the layers of skin and fat and muscle and. Yeah. Crazy. [00:11:03] Speaker A: I just have visions of you also, like, wearing your Ben Atkinson method hat and selling and touting your business at the same time. [00:11:11] Speaker C: No, no, no, no, no. Right. Oh, well done. [00:11:14] Speaker A: You jogged my memory, Simon. [00:11:16] Speaker C: So George. George is in agony. George is begging for an epidural. So the anesthetist comes in. Anyone who doesn't know an epidural is a massive needle into your spine that then basically starts this numbing of your lower body. [00:11:33] Speaker A: The anaesthetist, if anyone listens to a past podcast, I've had one, and they did it wrong because they put them in fat people in Swindon. So they missed me. [00:11:40] Speaker C: No. [00:11:42] Speaker A: Did I not tell you that? [00:11:44] Speaker B: No. [00:11:44] Speaker A: Yeah, My epidural didn't work, and the anaesthetist came back and was like, oh, sorry. I'm used to people putting them in fat people in Swindon. I mean, actual words came out of his mouth. [00:11:54] Speaker C: Backhanded compliment to you. [00:11:55] Speaker B: Worst excuse I've ever heard. [00:11:57] Speaker A: I know, like a backhanded compliment, but. So mine didn't work. He missed and went through where it was meant to be. So I was in then double agony. So, yeah, I know what an epidural is. Anyway, sorry, carry on. I'm taking away from your moment. [00:12:10] Speaker C: George is wearing one of her farrier T shirts that says, like, handmade shoes or whatever on it, and he's like, oh. As he's trying, like, she's screaming. He's trying to put this in her back. I'm holding her and he's just chatting away and he's like, oh, are you a farrier? Oh, my daughter is studying to be a vet. She's really struggling to understand how the laminae work in laminitis. Could you tell me about that, please? And so George is screaming. So then he's looking at me like, can you explain about laminitis to me? I'm like, what. What on earth? What is this conversation that I am having at this point? [00:12:50] Speaker A: Yeah, that is amazing. I think it's because you're not allowed to move, otherwise the needle will go in the wrong place. So he was probably inadvertently trying to get her to concentrate and stay calm. But at that moment in time, he probably could have picked a better situation. [00:13:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Better question to ask. [00:13:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, laminitis in horses while you're about to push a human out of you. Good. Well done. Thanks, mate. And so how have, like. There's been a few photos I very much enjoyed that George has shared online of you asleep on a floor. But you're saying it's so easy. So. All right. There's a lot of people who are going to hate you right now, by the way. [00:13:29] Speaker C: Well, on day, on the first night, first two nights, we both sort of panicked. Like, we got home and had a baby and were like, what are we going to do? So we just set up camp in the living room and didn't really leave. So that's why I was asleep on the living room floor. [00:13:46] Speaker B: Yeah. I thought that you sent a picture. [00:13:48] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:13:49] Speaker A: You face down on the floor. [00:13:51] Speaker C: We just. We just sort of stayed in there for two days and then obviously got him. So he was sleeping in his is next to me cot and stuff. But he's easy. Like, we go to bed at about half 10, 11, he wakes up for a feed. [00:14:06] Speaker B: You need to change that. [00:14:07] Speaker C: He's easy. [00:14:08] Speaker B: So far. [00:14:09] Speaker C: So far, so hated. Like, we put him to bed at about half 10, 11, he wakes up for a feed, maybe about three, four, and then at about six or eight. So it's. Yeah, it's. It's not too bad. [00:14:25] Speaker B: Oh, look at. Look at Jenny's face. Look at her face. That is. That's a face of jealousy. Look at it. [00:14:30] Speaker A: Oh, no. I found this bit quite easy. I've just like my kids this morning. How quickly you get out the door is directly proportional to how many shits they need to do as you're trying to get out. How many layers of clothes you need to wear. They won't get up in the morning now. It's like having teenagers and they're bloody six and seven. I am late for school continuously. It didn't help that this morning we heard there were dolphins down at the harbor. So I got them on their bikes in their pajamas at half six this morning to go dolphin hunting. So that might have made us late for school. I'm that parent. But yeah, it's, it's. I think the baby stage is as long as you're ready to adjust and go hit my life as I know it is like a little bit changed, then, yeah, it's fine. But there's other shit that comes, like sleep regression and teething and when they first get their temperature on Christmas Day. And you've planned your first family Christmas together out the pub. [00:15:26] Speaker B: Yeah, the whole teething thing, that kind of fills me with dread, the thought of, like, having to deal with a kid that's got that. Because it's. It's horrible for them, isn't it? [00:15:34] Speaker A: And I think also for those listening who now don't want to listen to our podcast because they hate Ben Smug baby. A lot of people born with babies with reflux and that is just hideous like that is. They do. You can't lie them down. Basically. Yeah, my brother's baby had reflux. Yeah. And basically I went round to their house and he basically said to me, can you look after this baby for an hour or we're going to give him away. I was like, okay, I'll just take him, I'll take him. [00:16:00] Speaker B: But I don't think anyone should be annoyed with Ben because Ben, what he's saying is he's really easy and he's so grateful for that. Aren't you, Ben? [00:16:07] Speaker A: Yes, Ben. Yeah, that's what you're saying, Ben. [00:16:09] Speaker C: And also I think to make. I think to try and explain this a little bit further as well. The support network we have around us is insane. So, like, nearly every member of my immediate family lives within 10 miles. And so they're all here like, like tomorrow I want to get up and start work early, but I also want George to be able to sleep in. So my mum will be at the house for 6am so that I'll get up with the baby when he wakes up at like 4 or 5. And then mum will take the baby so George can sleep so I can go out on the yard. Do you know, like, yeah, that makes a difference. Things like that. And then like the second night that we were home I'd said to my best mate that we were, like, tired just from, like, looking after George from. And from her having a C section and stuff. And, like, he just turned up at the house, said hello in the living room and then disappeared. And we were like, james, where have you gone? And then I wandered into the kitchen after about 45 minutes to look for him and he was cooking us full Sunday roast in the kitchen. He cooked Sunday dinner, brought it into the living room, served it, we ate it, then he disappeared again. And when I went looking for him, he'd fully washed everything up, put all the pots away and left. And that was it. He was just like, no, I just thought I'd come around and cook you guys Sunday dinner and then clear off. [00:17:28] Speaker B: So I was like, that's really amazing. [00:17:32] Speaker C: Yeah. So we've had, you know, incredible support from everyone. And of course, George is, like, taking the brunt of it at the moment because she's healing from her C section, so she can't go out on the yard and feed horses. So I've got to go out and do stuff like that. The. The bit. The weird thing that's. I would say that has hit us already is like, you say, and we're so naive and so new to it. But even just how. You can't just switch the schedule at the drop of a hat. [00:18:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:04] Speaker C: You know, you can't just be like, oh, I've got a busy day tomorrow, so I'm going to get up at four and be on the yard for half four and. Or like, I'm just going to keep working horses tonight and I'll finish at 9 or 10, because now there's a small human that needs to be bathed and looked after. And like, George has had massive open abdominal. Abdominal surgery, so she also needs looking after. And do you know what I mean? Like, it's. That's the biggest change I've seen that you can't just be like that mentality of just get up late earlier, stay up later. Like, suddenly that's not really an option anymore. [00:18:43] Speaker A: My thing is just getting out the fucking door. Just getting out the front door. You just want to, like, going skiing. Oh, just pick up my ski stuff. And I go, no, no. When you've got kids, you've got to make sure you get enough snacks because how much fun they have is directly proportional to how many sweets you have. [00:18:58] Speaker C: It's like me and Simon. [00:18:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Literally, it's like having you two, like, but very small versions of you, and then the moment you go, oh, you've got all of their. Like, wait until they're toddling and it's winter and you get all their layers on the moment. You've got every single layer on that. They need to survive a winter on the yard. They will need a shit. Guarantee it. Like, this is. This is the shit that stresses me out. Like, that stuff. [00:19:21] Speaker B: Once you've got it on, you got to take it all back off. [00:19:23] Speaker A: All off again. Like, it will be. And then they don't want to put their coat on. Like, no, but you see, I have [00:19:28] Speaker B: that problem with myself. [00:19:31] Speaker A: Once you've got all your riding gear on, you need a shoe. [00:19:33] Speaker B: Stuff's always like, oh, no. [00:19:36] Speaker A: Got your Ava trousers on, everything. And then. Do you refuse to put your coat on as well? It's like, minus five. Put a coat on. I don't want to put my coat on. Why do you not want to put your coat on? It's fucking freezing outside. I just don't want to. Well, you'll get cold. I don't care. Put your coat on. I hate. And then they leave it somewhere in a puddle. They don't have a coat. I'm cold. My hands are cold. I told you you would be cold because you didn't put your fucking coat on. What's wrong with you? Wait till that happens. [00:20:02] Speaker C: Jenny, I'm loving this glimpse into your gentle parenting. [00:20:06] Speaker A: Oh, it's not. And then you like play parks. They're the most boring place in the world. Mummy, watch me go down the slide 400 times. I don't want to watch you go down a fucking slide. It is boring. It's like death. Let me do some deep Instagram scrolling, please. And friends try and talk to you. [00:20:24] Speaker C: I was gonna say, I think poor George already gets this with me when I come in from working horses outside and I'm like, george, look. Look at this vid. This video of me standing on horses for the 10,000th time. And she has to smile and nod and then like, yeah, stick it on the fridge. [00:20:41] Speaker A: But I want to add a caveat. Anyone out there who's just had a baby who. Maybe this might be getting you through some long nights, this podcast, because we get a lot of people listening to it in very strange places. It isn't that easy. Do not feel like you're a failure because you're not finding it as easy as Ben. Everyone's journey is different. You are doing very well if your human is alive. Just hold on to that thought. Not everyone's journey is like Ben's. And not everyone has A George like Ben does. So I just want to add that because I found that some people, when I was going for a shit time and I heard someone like, I used to follow that comedian Catherine what's her Face? And she was like, oh, it's really easy if you do it like this. I was like, unfollow. I feel like shit right now. So, yes, everyone's journey is different. You're doing very well out there. You might need to hear that right now. [00:21:28] Speaker B: And it is really hard. [00:21:30] Speaker A: It is. [00:21:30] Speaker B: I mean, I've never done it and I have no. There's no way that I'm going to be doing it. But what I gather, it's very, very hard. I always think it's like that. My friends have had babies. They're all. They're all like, oh, it's not going to change me or anything. You know, it's. The baby's going to have to fit in with me and then they just [00:21:45] Speaker A: disappear off the face of the planet [00:21:46] Speaker B: for like six months. I'm like, where did you go? It's like, I had a baby. [00:21:50] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe I get one. [00:21:54] Speaker C: You need George. Maybe at some point you need to ask George how it's all going. Maybe her answers will be like, ben's an asshole. [00:22:02] Speaker B: He doesn't help, he does nothing. [00:22:08] Speaker A: My one thing, though, Benjamin, kids are not an excuse to be late. Really winds me up when you go and organise being in the pub or being somewhere and people turn up an hour late. Oh, no plan to get out the door earlier when you have kids? [00:22:22] Speaker B: No. It's just a good excuse though, isn't it, at the end of the day, Jenny? [00:22:25] Speaker A: Oh, it really makes me cross. Yeah. My brothers, they're never gonna listen to this podcast. My brothers are never on time for anything, especially Ben, and he is always late for everything. Oh, it's the kids. The kids are now 19 and 17, Ben. You can't blame them anymore. [00:22:41] Speaker C: So basically what you're saying is if you're somebody that's always late, you should have a child so you can use them as an excuse. [00:22:47] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, probably, yeah. And it won't make me like you anymore. Right, so anything else on the baby front before we move on to Africa, which sounds like anything else. [00:23:01] Speaker C: We introduced him. Yeah, it's all on my Facebook, but we introduced him to Malik. He's been sniffed by ponies and he sat on Malik and he stood on Malik. So that is. [00:23:11] Speaker A: I watched that video. It looked like Malik wanted to have a bit of a chew on. [00:23:15] Speaker C: Yeah, he did wanna he did want to chew him a little bit, but then I. But then I, I put that down to. I always say sometimes when horses are a bit nibbly and it's all lips, I'm like, remember, they don't have hands. Do you know, like, if a horse wants to invest. No, but you know what I mean? Like, sometimes, not when they're teethy, but when they get. I call it their elephant trunk. Do you know when that top lip sort of digging around, they don't have hands to investigate something and see what it smells like or feels like or is. So like. I like to think that's what he was doing. He was just having a little elephant trunk moment. Malik's also actually parrot mouthed, so it's got quite an elephant trunk. [00:23:59] Speaker A: Yeah, he is very cute. And how's the dog taken to having a baby? [00:24:04] Speaker C: Yeah, perfect. [00:24:07] Speaker A: Yeah, no bother. [00:24:08] Speaker C: No bother at all. [00:24:09] Speaker B: Apart from Jenny. Jenny, you're definitely. All these questions, they're like. And Ben's going, yeah, fine, absolutely fine. Jenny's like, really? Are you sure? Something's got to be difficult here. Come on, help me out. [00:24:21] Speaker A: I just want the baby to have weed in his mouth or something. [00:24:25] Speaker B: Something to happen that's made it so it's not so much fun. No, come on, Ben, make something up. God's sake, help us. [00:24:32] Speaker A: Keep the willy down. That's what we learned very quickly because they. If you don't point it down in the nappy, it just weaves straight out, up. [00:24:40] Speaker C: I thought you'd moved on to Gregor. [00:24:41] Speaker A: That's the title of this podcast. Couldn't it Keep the willy down? [00:24:47] Speaker B: Did you say that's what you do to Gregor? [00:24:49] Speaker A: No, says that's what I do to Gregor. Keep the willy down. [00:24:54] Speaker C: No more children. Willy down. [00:25:02] Speaker A: Oh, goodness. I was just taking a desperate turn. Right, Simon, grieve. You have. First of all, happy birthday to you for a couple of days ago. Happy birthday, dear Simeon Happy birthday to you. Me, [00:25:20] Speaker B: 43. [00:25:22] Speaker A: 43. How do you feel about being 43? [00:25:27] Speaker B: Kind of fine. 40 was quite a hit. But like now it's kind of like, you know, it's just fine. [00:25:34] Speaker A: It's all good. [00:25:34] Speaker B: I'm definitely getting greyer, more handsome. Oh, cheers, mate. She says she does all the right things, doesn't she? [00:25:42] Speaker A: That's what they. What you pay me for. [00:25:47] Speaker B: But yeah, no, it was a. It was a good birthday. I, I was eventing. It was the first event of the season and it was bright sunshine. It was beautiful. I had a lovely clear round cross country and had a lovely Time. So it was good, Very good. [00:25:58] Speaker A: How was it being back out eventing? Did you get. You. Did you have to put your big pants on? Were you shitting yourself or was it all right? [00:26:05] Speaker B: No, it was. It was fine. I mean, I could have. So they've kind of swapped it around. So the intermediates were on the first day and the hundreds were on the second day. And I'm kind of used to when you first start the season, like having the first days like the 1000s and the novices. So it kind of gets you going and then you. The next day you do the intermediate. So I kind of had to go straight out intermediate, which was fine, but it was just a bit like, oh, okay, have a little word with yourself, make sure you don't pull too much. But I did that. But yeah, no, it was, it was, it was really good. And it was at Pop park, which is like right on the coast of suburb, so like near Ipswich. So it's a really long way to go. But it's so amazing there. Like, it's basically just sandy Heathland. And the going was sensational. Les, you wouldn't be able to doing anything near home because it was just far too wet. They're absolutely perfect, like perfect round. So it was really good, really good. [00:26:58] Speaker A: I saw on old socials that all the big guns were out there, weren't they? They who's who of who was there. [00:27:05] Speaker B: It really was. And like, it was. They've done such a good job there and the courses are really. They've. They've kind of developed into. Because it kind of went from Poplar started off like years ago, like 20 years ago. It was like the place to go is the first event of the season. Everyone went like, Jenny Lang used to go, Mark Todd used to go. Everybody would go there and like. And it was sponsored by Kleenex. It was like quite a big event. And you used to jump through a clean. They had a giant Kleenex box you jumped through as the last jump that. [00:27:35] Speaker A: Are we going back to talking about Gregor again? Talking about Kleenex. Sorry. [00:27:42] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. He needs a giant Kleenex box just like that one. [00:27:47] Speaker A: Yeah, Keep the willy down. Anyway, I digress. You jump for a Kleenex box. [00:27:51] Speaker B: For a Kleenex box anyway. And it just kind of. I don't know, it kind of went like. It wasn't as popular and then. But now all of a sudden it's come back again. Like they've kind of. They've done a lot of work on it and everyone's going back, so it's really good. And I. And I used to be based around that and I. It was really. It was really cool to go and see, like, the old guard and people that I've spent a lot of time with because we used to go do shows there all the time. So where I. Where I used to work was for a family called the Edmondsons. And Mary, who now competes at five Star, she's. She was nine years old when I first started there and James, her brother, was three. And I was trotting around the collecting ring so that you've got. There's a surface that you warm up on and there's the grass arena and they use that all year round. So we used to go there all the time. And I was trotting around there and I saw Debbie and Patrick, who were the couple that I used to work for, who I love to bits. And. And then. So those two. And then James, their son, who was three when I started there, was standing there, I think he's about 26 now, and. And his son Jack, who's about 3, was standing next to him and he's like. Was like, basically the spitting image of him when he was that age. And I think I was just a bit overtired. But I. And Patrick said, oh, good luck, Simon, Happy birthday as well. And I literally trot past them and I was like. And I kind of cried [00:29:12] Speaker C: because it [00:29:12] Speaker B: was just so nice to see them because they're such a special, important part of my life and they've been. They've done so much for me over the years and, like, if it wasn't for them, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. And. And it would just, like, hit me a little bit. And I was like, so, yeah, it was really nice to see them too. So it was kind of a little emotional trip as well. [00:29:30] Speaker A: They were probably like, well, you're not that old. Come on down. [00:29:34] Speaker C: I was just thinking we. We now know it doesn't matter if Simon's having a good day or a bad day. When he's on the cross country, he's gonna cry. Like, that's. [00:29:47] Speaker A: At least it wasn't me crying for a change. I'm just quite pleased someone else does as well. We just need to make Ben cry now. It's just mad, though. [00:29:53] Speaker B: Like, James was like. He was three years old when I first went there and I remember, like, yeah, he kind of spat in my face one day. So I locked him in the stable. I locked him in a stable. And Then this little brat, like, then managed to escape out the back window, which I didn't realize. I went back to go and get him and he'd gone and, you know, and now he's like 26 years old. Like, where's the time gone? You know, it's mental. [00:30:16] Speaker A: Talking of time. So on your birthday, obviously, people were posting Happy Birthday, Simon, with pictures of you. And there was a couple from your youth which looked almost like pony club days. Like, you're wearing a tie and your jumpers. [00:30:29] Speaker B: No, no, not that long ago. Like, I was probably 20, 23 and I look about 12. [00:30:36] Speaker A: Can I just say, you have aged well. [00:30:39] Speaker B: Oh, cheers, mate. [00:30:41] Speaker A: You like? You are hot, Simon. Grieve back then. Questionable. I'm just going to go there. I was like, bless the hell, Simon, you turned into you. You grew into yourself. And your ears, let's just put it that way. [00:30:57] Speaker B: I'll try and find those pictures out. But, yeah, there's one of them where I literally look like I'm 12 years old. [00:31:03] Speaker A: You really did. Like, literally. But I was like, bloody hell, it's not the same. You're really. You're quite. You were quite skinny as well back then, like, quite lanky. I don't think of you like that [00:31:13] Speaker C: compared to how fat he is now. [00:31:17] Speaker A: Well, no, he's now like a perfectly proportioned human. Whereas then he looked like this little spindly. It just didn't look like you. [00:31:26] Speaker B: I found a picture at Burley that shot up. I think it's in 2012, and I'm standing with my mum and I. I seriously, like, with no disrespect to anybody else at all, but I. I seriously look like I've got an eating disorder and so thin, like. And everyone used to say to me, oh, my God, you're so thin. Like, you look unhealthily thin. I was like, oh, shut up, I look fine. But looking back, I was like, no wonder everyone said that. [00:31:51] Speaker A: No, you've aged well, my love. You've aged well. [00:31:54] Speaker B: Oh, thank you. That's nice of you to say. [00:31:56] Speaker A: Well, when I first met Simon, I didn't realize that I wasn't his type. And I was like, oh, he's hot. But a. [00:32:05] Speaker B: But if it had been five years earlier, she'd been like, oh, my God, what the hell is that? [00:32:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:32:10] Speaker C: Jenny, have you ever fancied any. Have you ever fancied any male equestrians that were batting for your side, like? Or is it just. [00:32:22] Speaker A: It's a very good point. Is it like, do you. [00:32:25] Speaker C: Which team do you think he's on? Well, if Jenny fancies him. Like, do you know a secret about my dad? [00:32:32] Speaker B: Like, if Jenny fancies him, he must be. [00:32:35] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, there we go. I fancy your dad. [00:32:36] Speaker C: Pretty camp, to be fair. [00:32:38] Speaker B: You can never say never. [00:32:40] Speaker A: Well, also, when I was back in England without Gregor a few weeks ago, everyone was like, oh, you. What? Would you ever worry about Gregor? I was like, no, if Gregor was going to cheat on me, it would definitely be with a man. So I think it's just saying about something. Oh, fuck, he's going to listen to this and hate me. He really likes this podcast even though he doesn't know anything about horses. [00:33:02] Speaker C: Gregor, it's 2025 UBU. Gregor, it's fine. [00:33:07] Speaker A: Oh, he loves a bit of Disney. He loves his Disney and he loves fancy dress. [00:33:11] Speaker C: I did not know what you were gonna say because you were like, he loves a bit of dip. And I was like, what's she gonna. What's coming next? Oh, oh. [00:33:27] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. Oh, it's a bit of fun, isn't it? We're so getting canceled. Right, anyway, back. Back to eventing. How did you do, Simon? And your first events back only any prize. [00:33:45] Speaker B: Oh, no, I did get a prize. I got, I think, on Miracle, but Miracle and Cliff both jump double clears and Buster had a steady run in the intermediate, so. So it was like. It wasn't a winning outing, but it was a good outing. Like, they all went really well. And with Cliff, I kind of want to use it as an education and, yeah, it was great. [00:34:03] Speaker C: Really. [00:34:04] Speaker B: I'm really pleased with how they all ran, so. And it's the first event the season, you want to kind of find out a bit how fit they are. Obviously. Obviously, I've done my fitness work, but I want to kind of gauge how fit I think they are. And they seem to be on the right kind of track. And. Yeah, good. [00:34:21] Speaker A: Sorry, I've got to tell you this joke now, what you call a man with a seagull on his head, Cliff. [00:34:32] Speaker B: That's really bad. [00:34:33] Speaker C: That is bad. Really? We're laughing at you, not with you. With that one. [00:34:44] Speaker A: So, guys, we have some exciting news. Can I have a little drum roll, please, boys? The worst drum roll in history, but it is to announce that we have an advertiser on our little pod. Welcome to the family. Equestreams. Magnetic horsebands. I say magnetic horsebands, but I have actually been using these guys as dog collars, so for, like, at least 10 years. They are amazing. I've been a massive Fan of these bands for a very long time. I can honestly say, hand on heart. I used them on my horse Finn because he used to get big legs. Amazing. I've recommended them to so many people. [00:35:23] Speaker B: Talking of which, you recommended it to me and I've been using on my gorgeous girl Twiggy, who's my whippet, who is slightly. She's getting on now, she's 14 years old and I've been using it for quite some time now. And Twee seems a lot more. A lot happier and a lot more comfortable, which is fantastic. So thank you very much. [00:35:39] Speaker A: Extra streams and Ben via WhatsApp. So saying how much you love them, which I had to forward onto them because you were like, I love them so much. [00:35:46] Speaker C: Absolutely love them. I got sent one pair to test them out. I've used them for a few weeks and I've messaged asking for lots more of them. I've had them on an older horse of mine who struggles with his front legs because he used to be a weaver. His legs can get a bit sore and they can swell up when he's in the box overnight. If he's got these things on overnight, his legs are coming out cold and hard. They're absolutely brilliant. He's fresher in his work and I'm the most dubious person in the world. But these are blooming brilliant. [00:36:14] Speaker A: Yeah. So if you want to try these game changing wearable therapy bands that help with circulation, recovery and overall performance, as we've been discussing, then whether your horse is competing, rehabbing or just in everyday work, then do head to the Extreme website and we've got you a discount code. Um. Shut up. 10. You get 10% off your order. Please do try them. They are amazing and the results will speak for themselves because every horse deserves to be happy and live their best life and we absolutely love them. So thank you equestrians, for coming on board as an advertiser and a brand that we absolutely love. Simon Greave, you have been to Africa. [00:37:03] Speaker B: I have. [00:37:04] Speaker A: Very jealous. It's been my dream to go on an African safari. Horizon Horseback, if you're listening. Yeah. [00:37:11] Speaker B: I had the most amazing time with Horizon Horseback. They were fabulous. Tanya, who is a big part of Horizon Horseback, listens to us and she thinks that we're amazing and she loves both of you. So. [00:37:23] Speaker A: Hi, Tanya. [00:37:25] Speaker B: And she's. She's brilliant. She's such a nice thing. They're just a really amazing company. Like, it's like a family run business basically and, and they were incredibly welcoming and we went to South Africa first. And there's a lodge there, the Horizon Lodge. And, and you run out from there and you can see like giraffe and zebra and wildebeest and all that kind of stuff. A little, little, little pumbas and yes, it's like, it's, that's really cool. And then we were there for a few days and there's a swimming pool there and there's hippos and stuff. And then we then traveled down. That's South Africa. And then we traveled down south down into Botswana and Botswana is just a little bit more exciting and you travel around a little bit more. They've got, they have got other camps in South Africa but you have to travel a bit further in Botswana riding wise. And we stayed in three camps I think it was. Although they do have more and it was just, it's just amazing. Like it's, it's such a great experience. Like you see. So this time we saw lion on horseback, leopard on horseback and hyena on horseback and we saw some cheetah as well. But that wasn't on horseback, that wasn't a vehicle because we did, we do riding and then we'll ride to a camp and then they do like a game drive. So you go in a vehicle and we found a pride of like, of nine lions and they were pretty cross. The main lady, she, I mean she not badly but she was just kept on death staring us and yeah, she [00:38:59] Speaker A: heard about how easy Ben was finding having babies and she was like, yeah, yeah, whatever. [00:39:06] Speaker B: And like. And the camps are incredible. So we, you've got, there's Tuma Shatu which is basically you get your, like they're individual tents and they're, they're kind of down their own little, little footpaths. But you, you get escorted to your tent after dark and then you stay in that tent and if anything goes wrong then you've got a hooter. You do not come out your tent because you could easily get eaten. And then in the morning they come and wait you. We started quite early so that they come and wake you at 5:30 and, and yeah, and then you can come out. Well, as long as you've got permission. I went out to go swimming because there's a swimming pool there. But that was really exciting. [00:39:51] Speaker C: Before we move on, when we're saying about dangerous animals, don't come out the tent because you might get eaten. Yeah, because lions and leopards can't get through tents, can they? Like surely in your tent. [00:40:04] Speaker B: Absolutely not. [00:40:06] Speaker C: You're just like A chicken breast in a little package. Do you know what I mean? You're just, you're just the shrink wrapped bit of meat instead, aren't you? Of like. [00:40:18] Speaker B: But, but the, but these tents, they're like, they're really, they're kind of like luxury ones with like, really. They're pro and they're on, they're on a platform. Like, they're permanent. So like, so they're not, they're not very flimsy. They're like, they're pretty hardcore. And you've got a bathroom and a toilet and shower, everything. [00:40:35] Speaker A: It would like that. [00:40:39] Speaker C: I'd want really rather burly, well, armed security guards outside around the camp as well. [00:40:47] Speaker A: Have you seen the size of you, Ben? [00:40:49] Speaker B: But we had our guide, Max, who is like, he was amazing and like, I felt totally safe because of. [00:40:58] Speaker C: Thanks to him, I should say. I want Max to have a gun. I just need Max to have a gun. If I'm gonna be, if I'm gonna be around things that can kill me. I want to preserve the wildlife, but I also want to know that if it comes between me and them, I'm going home. [00:41:14] Speaker B: Like, but, but Max has got a bullwhip for that. [00:41:20] Speaker C: Oh, Max is like Indiana Jones. [00:41:22] Speaker B: So he, he is, he's, he's, he's a seriously special bloke. And yeah, he'll crack his, crack his whip if it gets to that point. [00:41:30] Speaker A: Point. Did you have a go on his whip? [00:41:33] Speaker B: Yes, I'm very good with it. Not very good, not very good at all. But yeah, and it was, I just. What I love about it is how respectful they are of the wildlife. And the horses are all really lovely to ride. They're beautifully schooled. But it's also like you're in a kind of a herd situation. It all feels really natural. And the thing that always gets me when I go there is how everything is. Everything's reused, everything's recycled. Like, if something is killed, then that's sad. But like, so many other things benefit from it and there's no waste. And like then, because I remember then we flew back into Heathrow and as we were flying in, we flew over the M25 or over whatever my red is. And, And I just remember thinking to myself, God, you know, like, where I've just been, it's all so natural and we really. Oh, bad only. [00:42:30] Speaker A: Well, then try going to America. I'm sorry. Every time I go and work in America, I am shocked. Like, the hotels that I stay in, like, obviously I don't get to Pick my hotels. I would love. If there's any sustainable people out there who are working with events, I know there's a few people to help them come over here. Because in Kentucky Hotel I stay at. I stayed at, they throw away the plates and cutlery from breakfast. They don't wash them, they throw them, they're plastic. And I said to them, because I was mortified by this, so I didn't eat breakfast in the hotel because just to use one fork, you'd have to open a knife fork and a spoon and that. Just like I. I take my reusable cup and I take my reusable cutlery to America now and I try and reuse my stuff because even in the. I'm not going to say the venue, because I'd love to actually work with them and find a way to actually help improve them. A different venue that I've been at recently. And I said to them, oh, you recycle at least. They were like, no, it's fake recycling. We're not actually recycling it, we just put it all in. It's for show. And I was like, you actually kidding me? So you think, yeah, there's so much, but. And I'm the same because obviously in Canada now, I live in, like, this utopia where it's. There's no rubbish on the side of the roads and they. So you get money back from your cans and your bottles, so even if you don't, if you threw it out, someone would go and pick it up and, yeah, it's just nuts. Suddenly go out of this. Like, even going back to England, I'm like, oh, it's rubbish everywhere. [00:43:57] Speaker C: It's funny because then you go. [00:43:59] Speaker B: They go to somewhere, like, somewhere like this. And like, we went on a. We went on a bush walk and. Which is exciting. We came across a crocodile, which is cool, but. And then we, like. The match was like, oh, what do you think this is? And it was like this white bit of crap on the floor. And he was like, that's hyena poo. And it was literally white. And I was like, why is it. Why is that? Because it eats everything. Because they're such. They've got such powerful jaws. They eat the whole shebang. They eat all the bone, all the cartridge, everything. So, like, so when they poo, it's white because of the calcium and it's all really fluffy and hairy because they eat all the hair as well. I mean, that's mental, isn't it? Like, they, like, use everything. It's amazing. [00:44:41] Speaker C: It's Amazing. [00:44:42] Speaker B: I'm going to tell you about the other. The other camp. So you've got one camp where you sleep outside, which it's got. It's got a fence around, but it's. It's kind of outdoors. And that is. That feels really kind of like in the sticks. And that's brilliant. And then there's another one which is called Tree Camp, which is basically. Did you watch Robin Hood? Prince Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves? [00:45:03] Speaker A: Yes, of course I did. Who has. There was a witch man from Nottingham who tried to cross the river. [00:45:10] Speaker C: What a joke. [00:45:10] Speaker A: He trips on a rope now look at him shiver. Of course I've watched it. I'm gonna eat your heart out. Cut your heart out with a spoon. Why a spoon, my lord? Cause it'll hurt more, you fool. Sorry. I love that film. [00:45:23] Speaker B: It's so good, isn't it? [00:45:24] Speaker A: Ben's like, oh, I hate both of you. Shut up. [00:45:27] Speaker B: But you know the bit where they're in the tree, they've got like those tree houses in the trees. It's just a very posh version of that, basically. Oh, nice. And it's just. [00:45:36] Speaker A: It's just. [00:45:36] Speaker B: It's incredible. I can't say enough good things about it. It's a brilliant experience. And, yeah, you should, you should go. [00:45:44] Speaker A: One of the things I do notice because, you know, I'm like, the horses look amazing. Like, they look in really good nick because I always see people posting about different places because it's been honestly a dream to go on a horse safari. But a lot of the time I look and I go, oh, oh, yeah, those horses don't. [00:46:03] Speaker B: These horses are. They're really well looked after. They're really nice horses, most of them bullpeds, which is like a African breed, but, like. But they're really smart. And like, the, The. The horses that I've ridden in Botswana have always been seriously quality and they're beautifully schooled and like, you know, you kind of go off to go. You go off for a can to start with, and they are in a really lovely balance. They've got lovely mouths. They've re. And it's, you know, no nose bands or anything like that. [00:46:30] Speaker C: It's all. [00:46:31] Speaker B: It's all really natural and it's, you know, it's. It's great. And, you know, there are lovely horses, too, so. Which makes it even more. More of a wonderful experience because that's [00:46:39] Speaker A: the big bit fun. [00:46:41] Speaker C: I say that's the big bit. That always puts me off ever riding while abroad or going on a riding holiday, because you have nice horses. Well, not even. Well, obviously, obviously that. But just from like a quality standpoint like you, you ride nice horses at home in a nice saddle and then you pay thousands to fly halfway across the world to ride horses and they're some U necked yak that the reins may as well be tied to a tree in a wooden saddle and you're like, this is awful. [00:47:10] Speaker B: And I think that, I think that happens a lot. [00:47:13] Speaker A: It really does. Yeah. [00:47:14] Speaker B: But Horizon, you know, my experience of Horizon is all the horses are quality, really nice horses and really well looked after and they're really well scored and, and that I think that's kind of across the board because obviously there were a lot, a lot of us on the trip and all the horses that were. There were really nice and they're really good at. You have to tell them what level of rider you are and I imagine, well, you know what people are like, they think they're better than they are. But you have to do a test when you get there and it's a fairly basic test, like to, to see what you like riding and, and every so often someone will fail that test and they, then they. Therefore they can't do the riding part holiday. So I think that they change it so they kind of go, you can go on a bike. Not so sure I'm that keen on that one. [00:47:58] Speaker A: I think I'd be better on a horse than I would a bike. [00:48:02] Speaker B: Or you, or you go in the vehicle. But that's just. But, but they have to be so careful because, you know, the horses are not, they're not donkeys, they're quality horses. And you know, and if you're going to end up falling off or, you know, Max, Mike, the guide, he's going to be the one that's going to be in trouble because he's the one that has to save you. So like, like if you're going to go on a holiday, like it's thinking about going on holiday like that. Just be very honest about your riding ability. [00:48:28] Speaker C: In fact, I would say go further. My top tip to anyone, whenever I ride a ride abroad, I lie through my teeth and say, I cannot ride. [00:48:40] Speaker B: I'm really novicey. [00:48:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:43] Speaker C: Because what you don't want is to be in a group of 10 people and everybody says they can't ride. And then you're like, actually I'm pretty good in a horse. And then you get the Larry one that they never send on a job because there's never a right. Like when you're getting horsed on a holiday. That is not the time to big yourself up. That is the time to be like, I can be a bit windy sometimes. I don't like a strong one. [00:49:07] Speaker A: Like there's Ben going, oh, I'm really bad at riding. As he, as they turn around, he's standing on one of them galloping round past a giraffe. I can reach your ears. [00:49:17] Speaker C: I'd love to ride a giraffe. I would love to ride a giraffe. You'd need a real good breastplate and a saddle raiser, wouldn't you, mate? [00:49:25] Speaker B: That would be seriously uncomfortable, surely. [00:49:28] Speaker C: I don't know, it'd be great. [00:49:30] Speaker B: Have you seen them when they canter? They do everything in slow motion when they're cantering. [00:49:35] Speaker A: Oh, it's like you going cross country, Simon. [00:49:40] Speaker C: It's collection. [00:49:41] Speaker A: I'm so sorry. [00:49:43] Speaker C: Giraffes have natural collection. [00:49:45] Speaker B: Simon's third time someone said that to me today. [00:49:49] Speaker A: What the what? That you go like a giraffe. [00:49:51] Speaker B: I'm really slow, slow cross country. [00:49:53] Speaker C: So thanks. I don't blame. [00:49:55] Speaker A: You know, I'm joking. That's how well we know each other. [00:49:58] Speaker B: That's the thing though, isn't it? Jane Rudolph, you're not joking, are you? [00:50:02] Speaker A: You just admitted you took a pull. [00:50:04] Speaker C: If I could nearly have a rotational in the warm up, I'd go slow. [00:50:12] Speaker A: Oh, let's face it, I can say this stuff because we know full well that I'm never going near a five star. So you can take the piss out of me about that all you like. And if we ever go on riding holiday together, I will be the one at the back screaming that you're all going too fast. So don't worry. [00:50:28] Speaker B: You know, I don't know whether you notice but quite often like professional event riders will write things like, oh, jumped a really good double clear today with planned time folds. I'm like, I'd write down every single post that I do because it's always planned to have time folds. [00:50:45] Speaker C: Because I like going slow. [00:50:46] Speaker B: I can go fast sometimes. [00:50:54] Speaker A: Such a silence. [00:50:57] Speaker B: I have a nice time. [00:50:59] Speaker A: You have a lovely time. You get to take it all in. You get to see the brain. [00:51:03] Speaker B: I think I've said it before on this. I remember going around Burley. The first time I went around Burley I was so slow, I think I got 80 time faults or something. And I saw people in the crowd as I was galloping along and I was like, hello. And that is wrong, that is not how it should be. But I was having a lovely time, [00:51:18] Speaker A: whereas I Interviewed Gemma at the end, going, how was the crowd? How was the atmosphere? She was like, I had no idea. I didn't see any of the crowd, didn't hear the atmosphere. I was focused. [00:51:25] Speaker B: Whereas Simon's going on, going, oh, hi, [00:51:28] Speaker A: I'm having a great time. Thanks. Yep. Oh, you were wearing your pink hat today. I love that hat. [00:51:36] Speaker B: And that color suits you nice. No, I'm not. I'm not that bad. [00:51:40] Speaker C: Well, my dad got banned from commentating performances when he did one at Driffield show, which is local to us, and halfway through commentating it, he was like, oh, hello, Brian, how are you? How's the family? [00:51:54] Speaker A: Like, oh, sorry. [00:51:55] Speaker C: And then he'd get back to doing his commentary and then he'd see someone else and be like, oh, Deborah, how are the kids? Like, like, that's. [00:52:03] Speaker B: No, I've just given me a flashback. I remember doing. I was talking. We're talking about Islam earlier. I remember doing Hunter Trials at Island when I was a kid and I won there because I was going really fast. Just put it out there. But when I was winning, I was going really fast and my mum. Well, someone was videoing on the vhs and all of a sudden the commentator flicks in and he goes, I don't care about the fucking results. I'm trying to fucking commentate and you're fucking trying to give me the results. Like, literally on the public stress system [00:52:33] Speaker C: across that whole thing, as I'm going [00:52:35] Speaker B: as fast as I can. Oh, God, I must try and find that. It was so funny. It was so funny. [00:52:42] Speaker A: Oh, I was grumping round. I want to say. Nunny. Nunny. That was. Is that still going? Yep, I was jumping around there and you could. Gregor was filming me and I was coming through some, like, trees or whatever, and you could hear on the commentary and Jenny Ruddle is in the trees. Yeah, Jenny who you can see on such shows like Horse and Country. Jenny Ruddle who? And all you can hear on the video is Greg again. She's going to fucking hate that. Name's Rudle. Why can no one get it right? And after that, I got so fed up of hearing people, A, pronouncing my name wrong and B, referring to, like, what other stuff I was doing that I now compete under my. I just stopped and moment, I got married, competed under my married name so no one knew who the hell I was. It was much better. But, yeah, Ruddle. And the problem is when you're galloping around and trying to concentrate and all you can hear is your name being Pronounced wrong. It's quite off putting. Yeah, but I'm going so fast I don't really have time to notice. Simon. [00:53:39] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I. Yeah, you should try going slower. You'll get more out of it. Jenny Ruddle. Jenny Ruddle in the puddle. [00:53:49] Speaker C: My most off putting thing is when I'm stood outside the arena before I go in. And like, I remember south, the south of England show last year gave me such a good hype. Like the commentator there was like, it was actually, it was Nick Brooks Ward at the south of England gave me such a hype up before I went in. He's like, he's like the best in the UK doing this, doing that. And you're sat there thinking, you could have saved this for the end. Like, what if I go in now and I'm absolutely dog shit? Oh, no, like, it's got to be good now, hasn't it? [00:54:21] Speaker A: Also, can I just say, you fucked yourself because if you're now shit in the next couple of shows you do, people can go, always had a baby, he's probably sleep deprived. But you've just banged on about how bloody easy it is and how much sleep you're getting. So no one's going to have any sympathy for you now. [00:54:35] Speaker B: It's now, mate. [00:54:37] Speaker C: My eventing version of Planned Time Faults is to put some strategically timed posts on Facebook and Instagram before I perform, highlighting my young and novice horses or the new sections of the performance that we've never done before. And I really hope they go well so that I've got a little bit, a little bit of a padded floor to land on if I, if it all does go tits. And it's sad that we feel that, isn't it? Like we all, we're all trying our best. Next time you see someone, like really fuck up doing something, remember they were trying their best. [00:55:17] Speaker A: Unless it's you two. And I'm just going to laugh in both your faces. I'm sorry, but I love you, but I will. [00:55:22] Speaker C: But you can. [00:55:24] Speaker A: So on another note, by the way, Ben, you are so good in that podcast with Richard. I just listening back to it, I was like, oh, he's, he's just, he just asked all the right questions. And Richard was just so good at like, just coming back at you and you back at him. I was like, this is what this podcast is all about. It was so good. I was very proud of you. But we're always talking about mental health on this podcast and you know, you cannot talk about if you don't want to but after the pub pod, all of us, and I think I. I always think everyone hates me and my world is coming to an end. And I get very, like, after a social situation. What did I say? Who did I offend? All my friends hate me. All my friends have gone out without, like, I get very in my own head, massive anxiety. Didn't realize that you two boys are quite the same. Especially you, Ben. Like, the podcast took a toll on you mentally. Do you mind me asking? Me and Simon were like, oh, Benji, he seems so confident. [00:56:21] Speaker C: It sounds awful. My natural state is introverted anxiety and depression. Like, that is my. That's my natural resting state. And so what people see, whether it be like, not that it's forced or fake, especially not with you two when we're doing this, but like, my public front is like, like, okay, get ready. Get out into the scary place with all the people. Do the thing, retreat and get back out of it. And so I think one thing that sort of, like, is definitely sparking more of my anxiety. And then the anxiety builds on. The depression, especially at the moment, is trying to put myself out there more. Like, with that conversation with Richard, like, with the interview with bd. Because the difficult thing about trying to. This isn't the right word, but I can't think of the right word, but trying to sort of be a bit of a people's champion. Do you know what I mean? Like, thinking about the questions people want asked or the topics that are avoided, or having seen other interviews happen with certain people and they manage to wriggle out of something. And then it's our job to sort of say, well, no, no, come on, we're not politicians, we're equestrians. Let's have some answers. But then you're like, oh, was I rude? Was I, like, did I get too excited about what I was saying? Did I do with that? And it sort of comes back and you chew over it. And yeah, I definitely had a. Like, because especially at the Richard interview, during the time during it, I was like, this is amazing. Let's go. And then literally the moment it finished, when we had those two interviews left to do, I was like, oh, my goodness, what have I done? [00:58:09] Speaker A: And you sent us such a heartfelt message afterwards, apologizing, and I was like, oh, my God, we think you were amazing. [00:58:15] Speaker B: We both were like, what on earth you apologizing for? You're absolutely sensational. [00:58:19] Speaker A: Well, actually, I think I was a bit drunk when I got your message and I just told you to fuck off, and you're Wonderful. I think I was slightly aggressive in my reply, but it was from the heart. It was a. What? You're amazing. But I just think it was because I. People always say to me, like, why do you not like getting your photo taken? Or why do you not like. I hate being on the Instagram going, hi, guys. Sorry, Simon, but because my job is about. I'll go to events and I will, like, say I'm working away for a week. I will be Jenny Rudolph, TV presenter. Like, boom, boom, boom, Walk into a press office. Hi, hi, hi. Shake hands, blah, blah, blah. I will get home and I will hide under my duvet crying for about a week afterwards. Because it is like you just are a complete. It's like being a completely different person. Like, Jenny Rudolph, TV presenter, producer, is 100% not the. Like, I can't walk into a party unless I've had a glass of wine. I'm terrified of social situations. And I just thought, like, it was just very interesting to find out that you were the same. Like, it's like a Persona you put on. It's like you wear like a. I don't know, it's like putting on a fancy dress costume and becoming a different person. And then I go back to being. [00:59:34] Speaker B: It's quite noticeable with both of you. Like, like at the pub pot. There are a couple of times when, like, Ben, you, like, stood up and started doing stuff standing up. Like, like, I don't know, you slap chop or whatever it was. [00:59:48] Speaker A: But. [00:59:48] Speaker B: But you went into showman mode and it was. And like, your tone slightly changed and how you were slightly changed, how, like, we are when we're in this kind of situation. And Jenny, I thought that you were similar as well. Like, you know, you kind of. You do turn on this. I'm the presenter. And off we go. Oh, my God. This is also amazing. [01:00:07] Speaker A: Jazz hands and. [01:00:09] Speaker B: Yeah. And what I love about what we do here is that it's very, very natural. And I kind of felt like at times that. Do you know what I mean? Like, it. [01:00:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:00:20] Speaker B: And I. And I'm. I'm talking about you guys. I'm. I'm the same, like. And I actually found the pub pod quite hard. [01:00:26] Speaker A: It was very overwhelming. [01:00:28] Speaker B: It kind of sounds really weird, but it kind of took me back to, like, being in the pub underage drinking when I was like, 17 and. And being very nervous about being there and kind of feeling like I shouldn't be there. And then like. And all my. Kind of makes all of so much older and. And they're Also confident. And I always felt like a little. [01:00:50] Speaker C: This little. [01:00:50] Speaker B: Little p. Little, like, insignificant person. It almost kind of came back to me in the sound. Not badly, but just, like, it kind of did. And it really surprised me how it came back like that. It's really. It's really bizarre. And, like, just kind of makes you realize how, like, your life experiences affect you so much more than you realize I'm talking rubbish, but you know what I mean. [01:01:11] Speaker A: No, but then you always do that. You always go, oh, I'm talking rubbish and you're not. And we love your stories, but you always apologize for your stories. And, like, it's just funny, isn't it? That. And I felt like with that pub pod, I was like, people have paid for tickets. I really want them to have a nice time, right? Why? I have no idea why they're listening to us. Like, you have these moments of total panic, like, why. Why do. [01:01:36] Speaker C: And. [01:01:36] Speaker A: And that kind of like, imposter syndrome, I suppose. Like, why have we suddenly deemed ourselves important enough that people want to listen? Do you know what I mean? But I don't feel like I want people to listen to us. I want people to listen to the people we're interviewing. Like, because how great were those three guys, the four. The four guests that we had. And then, like, people just had such a great time. But I was absolutely exhausted at the end of it. Like, mentally, like, wanted to call them [01:02:03] Speaker B: what I noticed more. And obviously I do have it when I'm interviewing, like, on TV stuff and all that. Like, someone. And you guys obviously get it. Like, whoever you're interviewing, they're answering the question. And while they're answering the question, your brain is listening to what they're saying because you want to, like, engage what they're saying, listen to what they want to say, but you also need to think about what the next question is going to be. And then they slightly deviate onto a different tack. And you go, but I've got a good question. [01:02:26] Speaker C: That's great. [01:02:27] Speaker B: And then they deviate onto a different track in the conversation. You're like, okay, so the question I was going to ask is now not relevant. So now it's right. [01:02:32] Speaker C: And. [01:02:33] Speaker B: And. And so, like, your brain's constantly going the whole time. But, like, when we're in this situation, if we had somebody we're interviewing now, it wouldn't be like that for me. Like, it's a lot more. Whereas in that situation, I find. And that's what knackered me out so much. I think it's like and, and also I was like, oh my God, I'm not asking enough questions and I'm not pulling my weight and I'm not doing a good enough job. And oh my God, this is terrible. And that's exhausting as well. [01:02:57] Speaker A: It was just. Yeah, it's very interesting. Well, I thought you were both brilliant and you are brilliant, so you don't ever need to apologize. But it was just very interesting. [01:03:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I think we definitely do it again. [01:03:12] Speaker B: It was, I mean, it was an amazing experience and the crowd are fabulous and that our guests were wonderful. And I just want to get good. I just want to get better at doing it. And, and it's great having these conversations with you guys about it to like, just realize that we're not alone in how we feel and just to have more confidence. [01:03:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's it. Like I did. Like, it's. Every time we hang up on one of these podcasts, I'm like, oh, what did I say this time? That I'm an idiot. Like, at least I can edit it. Like, I edit out quite a lot of the stupid things I say. But yeah, it just, it, it broke my heart a little bit as well. But then it also made me realize that you're both human, like a little like you've. And that you feel the same way I did. So even though it broke my heart, it made me go, okay, I'm not the only one that has total self doubt in everything I do. But yeah, because you two come across [01:04:04] Speaker C: so confident, I think the reason we don't. You, we don't sort of bring it up. You don't bring it up, do you? Even with like, even us who, who sit on here on this podcast and say like, you know, there are amazing places like riders, mines and stuff like that, and do talk to people and do reach out, but then you almost, you don't want to bring down the mood by saying like, like not, not one of us before we went in to do that that evening was like, oh, I'm really anxious about tonight. Or like I worried about this or. And I think it was overall like a. Well, I know it overall was like a good and healthy thing that we shared afterwards how we'd felt with one another and stuff and actually made each other aware so that then in the future, in those situations and stuff, like, you know what's going on with other people and stuff, don't you? Because it's, it's so. It is so easy to see what people are presenting and forget that there is a Whole human underneath. [01:05:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:03] Speaker A: When you're out in front of people, it is like putting on a show. And actually I'm quite happy under a duvet eating a whole bar of dairy milk, watching Netflix. [01:05:17] Speaker C: I think what, for me, especially at the pub pod, that was the first event that I've been to in four years, five years without George as well. And I don't realize. Or a horse, but I don't. Well, but definitely without George. Like, I've been to loads of events without horses, but I take my George. I take my George security blanket. And then so like when I'm at events, sometimes if I'm doing meet and greets or something and then someone sees me go and talk to George, it's like George is like my little oxygen mask. Like, I can run back to George almost like a child in the playground, you know what I mean? Like where you play. And then you have to go back to Mum. You have to see mum just to know she's there. Like, George is there if I need a recharge or like a power up. And like, she's like, yeah, you're okay. Come on, let's go. And then like back in the game. So I think that was a really big thing for me. A really big thing that I was there without. Without her as well. [01:06:13] Speaker B: Oh, that's very sweet. [01:06:14] Speaker A: As if we couldn't like, you enough, Benjamin. Fuck's sake. [01:06:19] Speaker B: It did get. It kind of made me laugh and made me think that, like, I stepped out, everyone had eaten, we'd all eat. [01:06:26] Speaker A: Yeah, you did. You disappeared. [01:06:27] Speaker B: And I stepped out and then I was outside and then Ben. Ben stepped out to where I was like, what are you doing? He's like, I just need a little bit of time to myself for a minute. And I was like, did you? Oh, me too. [01:06:46] Speaker A: That's why I'm out here as well. It's okay. Lucinda Green couldn't remember where she parked her car, so I volunteered to take her to find it. So that was my way of escaping. Me and her just potted off. Oh, wonderful. And we've still got two episodes. I'm going to release this. And then we've still got Austin o', Connors, which is hilarious. And then Austin o', Connor, as if I didn't love him enough. My God, he just was brilliant. And his wife is so cool as well. I want to be her best friend. Yeah, they were brilliant. Right, boys, so we're an hour 20. [01:07:25] Speaker B: I asked him about advice for the BHSI exam. I got my VHSI. Oh, yes. [01:07:31] Speaker A: Congratulations. [01:07:35] Speaker B: Thanks to Austin's advice, obviously. [01:07:37] Speaker A: What was his advice? Don't be shit. [01:07:40] Speaker B: It was obviously, yeah. It would be something like that, wouldn't it? It's like just, you know, it anyway, Just, just, Just say it. Just say it like it is kind of thing. I imagine it's probably what he said. [01:07:50] Speaker A: He was brilliant. [01:07:51] Speaker C: My favorite Austin moments were when Austin would start telling a story and then his wife would raise her glass and be like, no, get under that bus. You're not. You're not escaping from this. Yeah. [01:08:03] Speaker A: So keep an ear out for those podcasts, boys. I'll start with you, Simon, my gorgeous Simi. What has annoyed you this week? [01:08:13] Speaker B: So I think what has annoyed me this week is it happened. It's happened a couple of times when I'm show jumping and we're in the collecting ring and somebody is not very nice to whoever's helping me on the floor and. [01:08:26] Speaker A: No. [01:08:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And I find that really, it annoys me because it's not my argument to have, but I kind of. I don't know, I just think it's so unnecessary. [01:08:37] Speaker C: Like. [01:08:38] Speaker B: Yeah, it happened a bit with Amanda who was helping me in Poplar park with somebody and it. Yeah, obviously. [01:08:44] Speaker A: Were they famous? No. [01:08:46] Speaker B: No, they weren't at all. No, they weren't. It was. And to be fair, I think it was actually more to do with an anxious mum. But they were just. She was just quite disrespectful to Amanda and she's incredibly good at standing her ground. But I just think it's just really unnecessary and I don't like it. [01:09:01] Speaker C: Oh, just don't be rude. [01:09:05] Speaker A: Yeah, just don't be rude. [01:09:06] Speaker B: It's just. It's so unnecessary. But. But it's amazing what nerves do to people and they do do things that maybe they wouldn't normally. So. [01:09:12] Speaker A: Yes, but I agree with that. But still. Or just go. I'm really sorry afterwards. Yeah. So I was jumping at Smith's lawn and our friends who live in Windsor came over to watch. And my friend Pat Pong, he is very Irish. CrossFit. So a bit from, like, your camp built like a brick shithouse, Ben. And he was like, ah, Jenny, he's Northern Irish. I can't do the accent. I'd come do the jumps for you. You could do a Northern. Northern Irish accent, Simon. Anyway, so he. He doesn't know anything about it, but Gregor was on one side of the jump, he was on the other. Gregor was like, yeah, we just put him up and down when she shouts at us. It was Fine. Anyway, Mary King was like coming round and she went, don't move it. Jumping, which to anyone doing the fence, that's actually not that rude. But when you've never done putting up fences or anything before, because they went to put it up just as she was coming, so she shouted at them, but in there just like a. Oh, sorry. Yep. I'll leave it for a second. But batpong Steve, our friend, turned around and went, that was a bit bloody rude. What's wrong with her? Like, what the fuck? No one shouts at me because he's never been around horses. And Gregor just turns around and went, nah, she just doesn't like the Irish. And so he was like, he's just never since then, like, every time he's come to an event or we take him to badminton, he's like that fucking Mary King. She doesn't like the Irish. And we don't have the heart to tell him that that's. [01:10:37] Speaker B: You couldn't get anyone sweeter than Mary either. [01:10:39] Speaker A: I know exactly. Like the least. So, Mary, if you're listening, we will correct him one day. But, yeah, right now, it's just too funny not to. [01:10:46] Speaker C: I was performing at a show last year and our wonderful friend Jay Hallam saw me, saw that I was performing there and Jay the Tiger was like, oh, mate, do you want to come for a chat? I was like, yeah, what a chat meant was, do you want to come and do jumps for me in the warm up? So I was like, yeah, okay. So then I'm grooming for Jay at this thing, putting studs in, moving. And it wasn't simply. It was an outdoor show and it as in on grass. And it wasn't simply, can you put them up and down. He rode in, jumped it once and then was like, looked down and was like, I don't like this ground. Move it over there. So then, not only did I have to put jumps up and down, I'm carrying jump wings around this collecting ring so that he can have good ground for his. For his jumping. He jumped very well. [01:11:31] Speaker A: I love the fact that you are literally like the. Now you are. Yeah, he jumped. Well, I can judge him now because I have jumped his horses. [01:11:39] Speaker C: I can judge jumped his horses. He had two there. After he'd warmed the first one up, he was like, well, that'll be fine. Now you walk this one in for me. No, no, don't mount up. You just lead it. So that's what I was doing in between performances. [01:11:52] Speaker A: Oh, I love the fact that he knows you well enough. That he can. [01:11:55] Speaker C: I also want to say that that is the first time when we've done what's annoyed you this week that I think Simon's actually not, not simply aggravated by something but annoyed you looked exactly. [01:12:07] Speaker A: And not apologized for it either. This has annoyed me and it's not because I'm tired. [01:12:13] Speaker B: No, no, no. It's, it does annoy me. Like I kind of, you know, so. Because it's, it's happened a few times in the past and where someone's not been very nice to someone who's helping me. Obviously Amanda helps me most of the time but like she'll have got up at 3:30 in the morning to come and help me and do. And is trying her best and then you get somebody being rude in the collecting ring to her. I just, I find it really, really. It really annoys me. Really. I, I have, I've had it happen a couple of times where I've actually had a word with the person. I said sorry, but that's not okay. You're not allowed to talk to her like that. Like you know, good for you. But like, yeah, it's kind of, I feel like it's my responsibility in, in a way like protect all that. But obviously like someone has to really kind of grab my gears for that to happen. [01:13:06] Speaker A: Grind your gears? It's phrase. [01:13:09] Speaker C: It's not just, it's not just from like a person to person thing of that person being rude to her either. It's also like anybody who does anything with horses knows that there's as many mates and volunteers that keep the wheel spinning and like, so if you talk to people like crap when they offer to come and help you, they're not going to come next time, are they? So like it's, it's that sort of, you know, we all need that, that, that going on with us. [01:13:37] Speaker A: I agree. What's annoyed you this week then, Benji? [01:13:40] Speaker C: Equestrian educators on social media. [01:13:44] Speaker A: Oh, that sounds punchy. [01:13:47] Speaker C: I am sick to my back teeth. If you have a Facebook or an Instagram or a TikTok or Threads or whatever the toss you use as social media and you do horses and you say that you're an educator or that you give people advice, writing a small novel or bleeding bullet points that simply lists what not to do is not fucking helpful. I am so sick of it. It is negative, it is spiteful. It basically I'm so sick of it. Like every day, whether it's liberty, people jumping, people showing people dressage people. Do you know what would be more useful? Opposed to writing a small novel or five bullet points of the five things you must never do. And if you do these, you're either [01:14:42] Speaker B: a moron or bad person. [01:14:44] Speaker C: Why not write the five things to do to be a good competitor or a good rider or a good person? Like, because that's been an educator. The other thing is just being an. And we all know when you write your. We all know that when you write your massive novel or your bullet points of all the things that are wrong, we all know that you haven't actually got anything to share. We know that you've seen someone else's post that's annoyed you, so that's why you've written your negative post to get back at that instructor in your area that you don't like or you don't like that they won and that they teach like that. So you're going to slag it off. I can't stand it. And also, if not to try and like, damage anybody's business or anything, but if you are having instruction from someone that's like that, there are better people like, you want instructors that want to share knowledge, not say, no, that's wrong. Because can you imagine if you were trying to teach a human or a horse to do anything and instead of saying, I would like it like this, please, you just said, no, that's wrong. No, that's wrong. Like, it. It's just foul. And it's. Yeah, that is. It has really ground my gears this week. There's been so much of it. And yeah, don't interact with those posts. Let them die. [01:16:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like it's about positive. Positive reinforcement stuff, isn't it? Like, if you say, no, no, don't do this, don't do that, don't do the other. Okay, it's fine with. But like after a while you're like, oh my Lord. Like, you know well. And also it's difficult to like, compute all of that. [01:16:18] Speaker C: Well, and also. Okay then, so say I'm an absolute novice. I've read your small novel on ten things never to do when going showing. [01:16:27] Speaker B: So what do I actually do? [01:16:29] Speaker C: So what do I actually do? Or like, I saw one the other day that was all the worst things about shoulder in all the ways not to ride it and all the ways that it's useless if you ride it like this. And at no point did it say how you should ride it. At no point did it say the benefits of a good one. And so you're just like, it's pointless. It's just. Yeah, that is if I could remember that Room 101 program that used to be on when people used to like put stuff in room 101. If I could put seemingly posts on social media that masquerade as educational but just actually want to slag someone else or something else off, that would be. That would be my room 101. Yeah. [01:17:15] Speaker A: That was a good rant, Benjamin. [01:17:17] Speaker B: Very good. [01:17:18] Speaker A: That was excellent. [01:17:21] Speaker B: So now we're preparing ourselves for a big rant because it's your go, Jenny. [01:17:25] Speaker C: Do you know what? [01:17:26] Speaker A: I don't think I've got anything. I've already ranted about my kids pissing me off in the mornings because I just don't want to get out the door. I think I'm actually, I don't think I can top what Ben's just said. [01:17:36] Speaker B: So you're both saying that, you know, it's the way of educating has to be in the right way. [01:17:42] Speaker A: Yes. A positive reinforcement. [01:17:44] Speaker C: Like you said, there are more people out there who want your money than who want to help you. Never forget that. [01:17:56] Speaker A: I agree. [01:17:56] Speaker C: So just, just like. Yeah, and I know exactly what you mean. And, and, and I think the falling stuff started from a good place but it's getting a bit out of hand. Like it. [01:18:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:11] Speaker C: Who when? Right. The three of us all ride. When have any of us been falling off, known we're gonna hit the deck, we're past the point of no return and had. [01:18:23] Speaker B: Because that's the thing, that's the thing with this, with the falling off thing. I think I've fallen off thousands of times and I think probably at least 95% of those, those falls. I've been on the floor thinking what the hell just happened? [01:18:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:18:38] Speaker B: I don't have the time to be thinking, oh, I'm going to fall off in a second. So I'm going to do this. And also like if I'm thinking I'm going to fall off in a second, I'm thinking, no I'm bloody not. I'm going to stay on because I'm definitely going to stay on. And actually quite often that's made things 100 times worse. [01:18:53] Speaker A: I think you're learning how to deal with a situation. [01:18:57] Speaker C: Like if I was going to give any tip to anyone, if you know you're coming off, just make sure your feet are out your stirrups. Like if there, if there was any choice. And that is actually one thing when I was in America that they taught me from rodeo, if you ever fall off and your foot is in the stirrup roll Onto your belly. Roll onto your belly because it spins it. Because the mo. If you're laid on your back, your foot pointing up will keep your foot in the stirrup and you'll get dragged. Whereas if you roll onto your belly, there's a really high chance the stirrup will slip off your foot. But like, I know for me that's if I'm ever falling off. [01:19:35] Speaker B: Good one. I didn't know that one. [01:19:38] Speaker A: Yeah, they teach Simon rolling onto his belly. [01:19:41] Speaker C: Yeah, they teach aez. They. It's what they. They teach the saddle bronc riders in America, in the rodeo. Roll onto your belly and your foot. [01:19:51] Speaker A: I just think I just have these visions of like the amount of time something say someone's on like a hack with loads of kids and something spooks the horses and the kid goes, oh, I've been taught how to fall off, so I'm just going to throw myself on the ground instead. And if that kid like really damages themselves, like, then the parents can then sue the person who taught them as well. Like, there's so many repercussions. I think we educate on how to stay on as much as possible, but also on good safety wear. Let's educate on. Before you teach this, let's go to Charles Owen. What's the hat you should be wearing? What's the back protector you should be wearing? What is it you should be wearing? What safety stirrups can you get these days? I think that should be the opening to any post before you go, oh, look, this is a video of me teaching how to fall off. I think it should open with caveats first, even on social media, because these little posts, these snippets are what people hold on to. And it's a, it's a caption in time, like we always say, isn't it? A moment in time. Even with your best intentions, these moment in time should be buffered. Even if it's a bit fun with the education to prevent accidents. [01:21:00] Speaker C: Well, and just, I, I mean, personally, [01:21:02] Speaker B: I, I don't know enough about it to have a proper opinion on it. I don't. I, I've never been educated about how to fall off. Which sounds bad, doesn't it? Because I've been riding for a very, very, very long time, so. But, but whereas Ben, you'd be a lot more qualified to kind of like [01:21:17] Speaker C: talk about my big stuff. My, my only like I have. I. I'll finish with two opposite sides of the spectrum on this. So, like, start with a positive when this will seem like I'm Deviating, but I'm not. When I was 18, I was run over by a car while I was out running. And at the time, I was doing a lot of saddle falls, which is what we call falling off a horse on a film, a saddle fall on in films and in shows. And I was doing a lot of choreographed sword fighting and stuff where I was getting thrown about and things like that, and gymnastics where I'd learned how to fall. And when I got hit by the car, the only pieces of me that I went through the windscreen, the pieces of me that were filled with glass were my forearms and my back, because I tucked and rolled on instinct because of all the training I'd been doing at the time. And I don't even remember getting hit by the car. I didn't have time to think. My body instantly went into it. This is where we go when stuff goes wrong. Position. So I think getting involved in, like we said in the Pod in the Pub podcast when we talked about this, getting involved in things that get. You used to sort of sorting yourself out in Larry situations can help. The one thing that always puts my back up about the teaching people to fall is the final section of the course is never falling off that wooden horse onto the ground. It's onto a crash mat. [01:22:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:22:52] Speaker C: And I've never. I've not seen a single person teach it and demonstrate it by falling onto the ground. I've never seen anybody who says they teach how to fall safely canter along on a horse and throw themselves onto the floor using that technique on grass or on an arena surface or ever. And so, yeah, you can fall from a wooden barrel horse onto a crash mat in any way and be fine, really. And that. And it's just like, do your market research. You know, you're sharp enough if you're listening to this, like, don't have the wool pulled over your eyes. You know, if. If someone says they're teaching you how to fall and at the end of the day you're not at the very least dropping onto a hard surface, like an arena surface safely, then you know it's not actually going to be helpful, don't you? And if I must be, I feel bad because I have friends who teach this. But I would never fall off using a lot of the techniques that are trained. If I was getting paid to fall off on film, I wouldn't use those techniques. So. [01:24:04] Speaker A: And I think the reason it gets my backup is because I've done some filming with someone teaching it and demonstrating it, and they did do it at canter onto an arena surface with a stunt person. I cannot remember their names, so I couldn't even grasp them up if I wanted to. And the stunt guy who did it as he fell, foot caught in the stirrup. And we were in an indoor arena, so the horse did stop, but the stunt guy who did it caught their foot in the stirrup and was dragged to the end of the arena. They didn't have that much further to go. So the only time I've seen it done, not on a crash mount off a wooden horse, I saw their foot get caught in the stirrup. So I think that's why for me, in my head, I'm like you say, like you say. I. I totally agree. If you can teach someone's reactions to help save them. But the only time I've seen it done on a moving animal, it didn't work. So I feel like that's why I've probably got it in my head like a. Like a thing. [01:24:58] Speaker C: And when we do it on films, we do loads of things to help us do, you know, like we have stirrups that we call L bars that basically are a stirrup that's in an L shape so your foot can't get caught. Or we put our feet in the stirrup backwards. So you put the tip of your heel in the stirrup from the front of the stirrup so that as you kick your legs up to fall off, your feet can't get caught in them. Do you know what I mean? Stuff like little things like. Like that, like. Like the way that I was taught to fall is basically that you. If, you know, you, like, if we're doing it on a film or if you knew you were going to, is that you kick both feet out and then you basically want to grip the horse with both legs to lower yourself as you're sliding off the side, holding on with your legs, so that when you actually let go of the horse and reach full momentum, you're only like a foot two feet off the floor. And then it also means that you're landing with shoulders first so that you can tuck and roll. Because the nastiest injuries you see when people fall off on films generally are broken ankles. Because it's such a. It's such a counterproductive thing for your brain to process that your head should go down first. So everybody panics when they first start learning to fall off on films and their feet go down first and their feet hit the ground first and they break their ankles. That's the most common Common injury. Like it, it takes. There's a reason you get like big money every time you fall off on a film. [01:26:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Simon, you can make a fortune. I feel like I've been really mean to you today, Simon. I'm so sorry. [01:26:44] Speaker C: That's okay. Right, so just be careful. [01:26:47] Speaker A: It's been, I think be careful. I think that's what we're trying to get across. [01:26:52] Speaker B: The other thing about it, like, like I said, I know very little about it, but no fall is the same. And you know. Oh, yeah. I don't know. There are so many different ways that you can fall off and different things that can happen that make you fall off. I mean, I remember when air jackets first came out and people were like, oh, air jackets are dangerous because you, you can't tuck and roll when you're in an air jacket. Like you were just like, you were just saying. And I suppose that is true, but at the same time, an air jacket's supposed to try and save you in a situation where you're not going to be able to tuck and roll and like. Whereas racing, I suppose you probably. I'm talking as somebody who's completely unqualified to talk about this. But anyway, in racing, as a general rule, the falls are very similar because it's at speed and you do end up getting thrown clear and then you're going to have to chuck and roll on. So I suppose that's, that is one, one discipline where you definitely can make use of that. But like for eventing, for cross country falls, there are so many different ways of it happening. And if a horse leaves a leg, you're not going to be tucking the rolling. [01:27:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:27:49] Speaker C: One thing I'd love to ask you, Simon, is have you seen the people that teach how to survive a rotational fall? So they have mechanical horses on tracks that go along slowly and then tip. [01:28:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:28:02] Speaker C: And flip and again. No. If you jump a fence and it hangs a front leg and then flips itself, you ain't got time to think about what's going on. You haven't got time to go from position. [01:28:18] Speaker B: I had that. I had. I've had one fall like that in my life. It was a two stride, double one. The horse went to put in a third stride. It was two chicaners with a drop on the second one and the horse breasted it so it left both front legs behind and it started to rotate and it's arsenal came right up, but then the fence slightly over so it. So the horse then twisted and came over that side. So I Was okay. But I do remember being like this look at and, and I remember quite vividly going, this is not going to end well. And then, and then nothing. So like you kind of know what's, there's nothing you could do about it. Yeah, but maybe I, I, I'm willing to be educated on this, but like from my experience, there is nothing I could have done about that. [01:29:04] Speaker A: Well, if anyone has been on one of these courses and used it and it's become like, if there's advice that we can give people, then let's hear it. [01:29:12] Speaker C: Yeah, write us in, prove us wrong. [01:29:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I'd love to be proved wrong. Yes. [01:29:16] Speaker C: If you've been on the course, use the technique, found that it saved you, then tell us. Yeah, we're saying this out of, we're not trying to be negative or bad people, we're just concerned. [01:29:30] Speaker A: Like that's, we're here to educate. Or are we? We're here to do something. Laugh at Simon, to be caring and laugh at, be caring. Yeah. Right. [01:29:41] Speaker C: You love talk about Greg as Willie. [01:29:45] Speaker B: Yeah, he's willing up [01:29:50] Speaker A: literally the worst. He's gonna kill me. He's away at the moment. I'm flying solo with two kids. That's fun. [01:29:56] Speaker C: Has he got his Kleenex? [01:29:58] Speaker A: Right, I'll tell you what's annoyed me this week. [01:30:02] Speaker B: You two, massive box with a horse. Sorry, Jenny. [01:30:07] Speaker A: That's all right. [01:30:09] Speaker B: He loves you. [01:30:10] Speaker A: Really. Ben's lost it. He's absolutely lost it. [01:30:14] Speaker B: Right, but that's the thing, Jenny, he hasn't. [01:30:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:30:20] Speaker A: Oh, I'm looking forward to when your child reaches the four month regression stage. I'm gonna laugh in your face heartily. [01:30:27] Speaker B: The thing is though, Jenny, you're, you're, you're messing this up because now whatever happens, he's face, I'm like, this is absolutely, it's the best time of my life. [01:30:36] Speaker A: So I've got George's number, it's fine. [01:30:39] Speaker B: He hasn't had any sleep for like weeks. But I'm great, like happiest I've ever been in my life. [01:30:46] Speaker A: It's like one of those Instagram posts, isn't it? I won't tell anyone my kid's being a dick, but there'll be signs and he'll just come in with a coffee rather than his beer at 9 o' clock at night when we're recording and his hair will be disheveled and the muscles won't be there anymore. We'll know. We will know. [01:31:04] Speaker B: So he's gonna lie and we're gonna judge Absolutely. [01:31:08] Speaker A: Isn't that, that should be the title of this podcast. He's gonna lie. We're gonna judge. [01:31:12] Speaker C: We're gonna judge. [01:31:13] Speaker A: Excellent. Right, you gorgeous humans, what's the week looking like for you? Simi, you've got lots on. You're gonna be tired. [01:31:20] Speaker C: Shut up. [01:31:20] Speaker B: Big day teaching tomorrow, show jumping Wednesday, eventing Friday. [01:31:25] Speaker A: Oh, well, good luck. [01:31:27] Speaker B: Thank you very much. [01:31:28] Speaker A: Remember to try and stay on. [01:31:30] Speaker B: I will try my best. I'll try my best. [01:31:31] Speaker C: Excellent. [01:31:32] Speaker A: And what about you raising a human and playing with ponies, Ben? Is that it? Is that what you do? [01:31:37] Speaker C: Yeah. Raising a human, playing with ponies and riding on a youngster. Backed him last week, my little Christmas pony. I got, got him backed now, Hugo. Yeah. [01:31:49] Speaker A: Oh, oh, oh, I, I, I got the message. [01:31:53] Speaker C: I got the lovely message. Yes. Yeah. [01:31:56] Speaker A: Someone sent us a message who used to own Hugo on our Instagram and send lots of pictures and were gutted that they, they sold the horse, but knew had gone to a good home. So, hello, Hugo's past owner. It was lovely for your messages, thank you very much and all the lovely pictures. But how is Hugo? Is he going? [01:32:12] Speaker C: Well, to give you, to give you an idea of how spectacularly easy Hugo. Hugo is he. When I say I backed him, I'd been out long, reigning with him and then brought him back. He was tied up in a head collar and lead rope, so I untied him, laid across his back, he didn't care. So then I sat on him sideways and he didn't care, so then I sat on him properly and then just rode him around the yard in a head collar and lead rope at walk for his first ride. Wow. Yeah. And he just didn't. He would turn left, he'd turn right, he'd stop, he'd go backwards. Yeah, I just wandered him out. I was in the barn, rode out of the barn, around the yard, into the other barn and I was like, cool. First ride, no dramatics. [01:32:55] Speaker A: Please don't try this at home, people. Please don't try this at home. [01:32:58] Speaker B: Well done, Hugo. [01:33:00] Speaker C: Yeah, well done, Hugo. So we'll see if we can try and push him on a bit now. Bit of trick trot and yeah, it'll be a good. [01:33:08] Speaker A: Does sound like you trying to be posh, doesn't it, Hugo? My horse is now called Hugo. [01:33:13] Speaker C: Hugo. [01:33:14] Speaker A: There you go. [01:33:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:33:15] Speaker A: What's the poshest voice you can put on, then? [01:33:18] Speaker C: What sort of posh? [01:33:20] Speaker A: Like, like aristocracy. That's not even a word, is it? Did I say that wrong? [01:33:26] Speaker C: Aristocracy, like a very proper, like a Proper, well pronunciated. Real. My theatre voice I can do if I need to. We can do that. [01:33:36] Speaker B: Sounds like very good. [01:33:37] Speaker C: Or we can go full posh. I'm very sorry, Jennifer. The children are down at the house. The house to the dogs and I really can't now. No, Mummy and Daddy, they've gone away and gone skiing. Old money's always pissed. Darling, [01:33:59] Speaker B: That is very good. [01:34:00] Speaker C: I like that one. [01:34:01] Speaker A: Oh, I like it a lot. Right. Oh, piss off, the pair of you. I love you very much. We've been going for nearly two hours. Oh, if anyone's still with us, well done. You are the true fans of this podcast. [01:34:12] Speaker B: Well done, team. Well done. [01:34:14] Speaker A: I feel like you haven't done it for a while. Come on, boys, sing us out. Shut up and ride. [01:34:19] Speaker C: Shut up and ride. Ride, [01:34:23] Speaker B: ride. [01:34:24] Speaker C: Shut up and ride. [01:34:26] Speaker B: Ride, ride, ride. [01:34:31] Speaker A: Such a frat. The power of you. [01:34:33] Speaker B: Yeah, you bet. You better do it, Jenny. [01:34:35] Speaker A: No. No one needs to hear me singing. No one will ever listen to the podcast again. [01:34:38] Speaker B: Definitely don't sing. Just call us out and shut up and ride. [01:34:42] Speaker A: Right, pair of you. Shut up and ride.