Processing Grief and Loss

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to the Shut up and Ride podcast. Another episode. We are, of course, sponsored by Charles Owen, who we love. [00:00:20] Speaker B: We do. They are amazing. [00:00:22] Speaker A: We do just. Simon. Today, Benji is in the mists of summer spectaculars and he is performing. He is a performer, isn't he? Like, that is a good description. He is a performer and anytime he's not performing, he is trying to improve and better his horsemanship skills. Some of his videos of him just, like, training so many horses at once. I can't control my children. And he can control how many horses at once while standing on them. It's. It seems unbelievable at times, doesn't it? [00:00:57] Speaker B: Like, I mean, it's just. It's just spectacular. When I went to go and see him at Rutland county, just, he's. He's just brilliant. He's just brilliant. He just. And also the other thing that's so amazing about him is how he commands an arena as well. He just. Oh, yeah, he's a proper showman, too. So not only does he have amazing understanding of horses and they really respect him and do all this stuff for him, he also has this Persona that is like, you know, like he holds a room or holds a whole arena. Like, it's. He's just. I think it's amazing. He's amazing also. [00:01:32] Speaker A: I mean, I've worked with riders forever now and all over the world. And you are very good at this as well, actually. He is so good at explaining how he does it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? He. So many are so good at doing it, but not so good at that, breaking it down. [00:01:49] Speaker B: And that's why BAM is so brilliant. The Ben Atkinson method. [00:01:53] Speaker A: I know we all need a little bit of bam in our lives. Yeah. A bit of bam. Slightly somber tone to the podcast today, Sime, because the eventing world, which I was a very, very, very tiny part of moons ago, but is your absolute life and world, has had a bit of a shake at the weekend and I woke up to messages from you, notably shocked messages, because not one, but two tragedies happening in one weekend. Yeah. And anyone who doesn't follow eventing but is a horse person or just like in this world of equestrian that we love, it was just two very wonderful women that have sadly lost their lives, Kerry and Sophie, over the weekend. Yeah. And it's kind of shaken the horse world a little bit, hasn't it, Simon? [00:02:53] Speaker B: Yeah, hugely. Hugely. It's just a huge tragedy and such a great loss. I didn't know the girls very well, but I did know both of them. I was at Swarcliffe, which is where. Where Sophie had her accident. And I did see her on that morning. I saw her in the dressage warmup and like I said, I didn't know her particularly well, but I knew her well enough to be able to chat and say hello and as you do, you know, like we all kind of get to know each other and I, you know, and we just had a very brief kind of hello and have a great day and she, and she had a big, big smile on her face. So. And then, and then I then went and rode my first horse and went round and did the course and jumped on the fence where she had her accident. [00:03:48] Speaker A: And then she was in the 90, wasn't she? [00:03:51] Speaker B: She was, yeah. And it was, you know, it was a good course. There was nothing wrong with the course. It was really good ground. They'd made a real effort with the [00:03:59] Speaker A: ground and so she was a five star rider. I just want to make it very clear that this was not someone having their first go at a 90, do you know what I mean? She was such a, possibly very, like, some might say even like massively underrated [00:04:13] Speaker B: rider because she was just, she was very talented. Very talented girl. [00:04:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:18] Speaker B: And so, so, so I went round and then, and then about half an hour later the entire event stopped and, and immaterialized what had happened. And it's just, it just, I just. Yeah, I don't really know what to say about it, to be honest. Like, it's, I found myself a bit lost for words with it. It's, it's just so awful because, you know, she had a young family, her husband, her fam, her family, her mom and dad, you know, it's, it's just awful for them and, but like, and I don't like making it about myself, but I can't. It's, it's, it's really hit me as well. It was somebody. [00:05:01] Speaker A: Simon. And it is all right in these moments to say how it's affected you. Do you know what I mean? Like, we're not, we can't all sit, like. [00:05:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:09] Speaker A: Affect you. It's what you do for a living. [00:05:11] Speaker B: And that, that is like she, she was at the same level as me. I would say that we were on a par with each other, you know, with our experience and, and what we [00:05:21] Speaker A: prettier than you, I have to say. [00:05:23] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. We both do the same, same thing, producing horses and you know, and I, you know, I just, when I was taking that horse around exactly the same class that she was doing. I was like, I'm just gonna wagon this young one round and, you know, we're gonna have a nice time and it's gonna be great. And then, oh, God, what am I gonna do tonight? I'm gonna. Hopefully I'll. Hopefully I'll be home in time to have dinner with James. And it never even crossed my mind that something horrendous would happen and. And it happened. Happened to her and I just. Oh, yeah, it kind of just makes you question quite a lot of stuff. Then the next day I went to Offchurch Barry. I did an event there with a young horse and he was a first timer doing 90 and it definitely made me think a little bit. And it was good to get back on and go around again and remind myself that I really enjoy it and I do really enjoy it. It's an amazing sport. I wouldn't do it otherwise. So, yeah, sorry, I don't. Like. I say I'm a bit kind of, I'm a bit. It's. It's still really raw and I don't really know what to say about it. [00:06:38] Speaker A: And when did you find out about Kerry? Obviously that was in, in Scotland. [00:06:43] Speaker B: So, yeah, that was a few hours later. Somebody, somebody at the event, you know, because it went totally quiet. You know, we weren't actually told what. What had happened. We just knew something really bad had happened. And then a police car arrived and people that, you know, experienced, knowledgeable people, you know, you're aware that that is not good news. So. So we weren't really sure what was going on. And then eventually they said, oh, actually we're going to abandon the event and, and tomorrow as well. And it was very shortly after that that the message came through that there had been another incident at Penrith. And Kerry, I, again, I didn't know Kerry well. I knew Sophie, but not very well. And I didn't know Kerry, but I had. She had messaged me on Instagram multiple times, you know, with my hey, team stories. She was quite active in responding to those in a really lovely way. She was always really positive, congratulatory when things had gone well and encouraging and, you know, wishing me good luck and. And we had a couple of discussions about her own riding and the last chat we had, she was saying that her show jumping confidence had really increased due to her really fabulous, amazing horse. And she was saying what a great time she was having. So she was clearly a really lovely lady. I don't know the ins and outs of what happened at Penrith or what happened to her. But I know that it was a fatal accident and you know, God, just. Yeah, it's just terrible. It's just terrible and just, it's just criminal that, you know, these clearly lovely women with their lovely young families, you know, why is it, why, why does that have to happen? And you know, there have been a few people that have commented on social media saying all questions need to be answered and yada, yada. I'm not sure that they do. I think they're just really unfortunate accidents. I don't know. What do you think, Jenny? [00:08:48] Speaker A: It's so hard because. Sophie. So every, every year my friendship group get together in January, as you know, and we go on a big weekend in the countryside. And every year Giles comes along. I've met him through my friends Matt and Kate. And so I've got to know Giles really, really well. And then this year, Sophie, Giles's wife, did make it and I. I'm not very good at meeting new people, especially on, on this weekend because I'm with my friends, I'm a lot, I drink too much and I can be my loud, obnoxious friends self with my friends. And my friend Kat was sneaking out for a cigarette and. And I have to say, on this shoot weekend I do indulge a little bit. And as I was running out to. Because she's like, oh, I'm just sneaking out. And I was like, whatever, I'm not going to let her do that. No peace and quiet for her. In my head I was like, I'm going to go and catch up. And I also wanted to make sure she was all right. So as I was legging it out the door, Giles stopped me and went, jenny, I finally want you to meet Sophie. And I looked Sophie straight in the eye and went, sorry, I just need to go and fuck up someone's quiet time. I'll be back. And that was the first thing I ever said to her. And I ran out and what I should have said is, I'm just going to go make sure my friend's all right, but because I have no filter, that's what I said to her. First thing I have said to her. And then after I went and saw that Kat was okay, I was like, oh God, she's going to hate me. She's going to think I'm a right twat. Turns out she didn't. She thought it was hilarious. And we had a great night and she fitted into a group of rowdy asses, amazingly. And then the next day we had breakfast together. Then Obviously I haven't seen her since January or Giles and obviously chatted about the fact she's got kids bit younger than mine. But I. When you sent a message saying an incident had happened, obviously I'm behind on time. There was no bit of me that thought it would be someone I know. So I didn't really go down a rabbit hole of looking. Obviously it's summer holidays for me. I'm trying to be off social media unless I need to be. So then my friend Matt messaged saying, guys, not sure if any of you have heard and the devastating news and about Giles and it's just, I just don't. I cannot fathom having to go home and have that conversation with my children. But she, she's just such a great person and so lovely from the short time that I had with her. And I hope that in this podcast we can do justice to. I know, so raw and so hideous and begs all those questions, doesn't it, of should we event and put ourselves at risk, but you can cross the road and get hit by a car, do you know what I mean? Like, she did a job she absolutely loved and I hope her children are inspired by that. And you've got to do something you love in this life, otherwise what's the point? Do you know what I mean? What is the point if you're not going to enjoy it and if that comes with a risk? I mean, I think base jumping might be taking it a bit far in the risk scenarios personally, but it just breaks my heart and for everyone involved. And I just, I think that's the [00:12:16] Speaker B: thing that is really hits home so much is the effect, the knock on effect that it has, it's awful for her, obviously, but the knock on effect it has to everybody else, as in Giles, the kids, her parents, her friends, you know, it's just, it's such a. I was saying to somebody, again, making it all about myself. Sorry, but I was saying to somebody, I was saying to somebody about it, I was like, you know, why does it have to happen to somebody like that? She's got, you know, she's got two dependents, like as in the kids, like, why can't happen to somebody like me that, like, you know, I've got, I've not got any children, I've got no dependence. [00:12:55] Speaker A: You've got me, I depend on you. [00:12:58] Speaker B: And then, and then my friend, she was like, you are a twat. Shut up. Like, for God's sake. That's not nothing to do with it, you know, it's just it's just. This is life. And that's how. How. How it goes. It's. It's really. Sometimes. [00:13:11] Speaker A: And I wanted to read out your very good friend, Izzy Taylor. [00:13:22] Speaker B: Yeah, she wrote something really, really lovely. [00:13:26] Speaker A: I don't know if I'm gonna get through it, but I'll try, because I thought she wrote, I thought she was very eloquent, and I didn't know if it would help people because I think in these times, I can't be very eloquent. But Izzy is a mum of two as well. She's obviously been through her own comeback recently, coming back from injury. She's a very good friend of yours. She is, and can be very wise at times, Simon. But she said, a horrific weekend for our sport. And that's one of the things I notice is our sport. It's a sport for everybody. It's a family. It's one of those, like. I don't know, there's something about venting which just brings people together, and it's just such a brilliant, fun thing, isn't it? It's. [00:14:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's also, like, I've said it before on the podcast, I. I always feel like, especially at big event, in fact, no, at all events, like, it's us. It's all of us against the course, first and foremost. It's all. And. And. And we'll help each other all the way. If you're wanting advice, if you want to talk through offense, if you want to talk through the course, then anyone is prepared to talk about it and talk through it, because it's all of us against the course. And then when we're all back safe and sound, then. Then it's all about the competition, and then it's about being competitive more so. And I love that about the sport, but it kind of like this. This drives it home even more [00:14:52] Speaker A: so. Izzy Taylor. A horrific weekend for our sport. A brutal reminder of just how fragile life really is. Two lives lost doing something they loved. My first reaction was anger. Anger at the sport. Anger that something we dedicated our lives to can take so much away. But after sitting with those thoughts, I realized this tragedy speaks to something even bigger. Life itself is fragile. None of us truly know what tomorrow holds. We spend so much of our lives trying to make sense of why terrible things happening, happen, searching for reasons that may never exist. From beginning to end, life remains a mystery far beyond our understanding. Eventing is a sport built on courage, partnership, and passion. For those who choose it know there are risks, just as there are in so Many parts of life that doesn't make losses like this any easier to bear. Today, my heart is simply with the families, friends. And connections. And everyone affected by these devastating tragedies. There are no words that can lessen your pain, but I'm so deeply sorry for your loss. Hold your loved ones a little tighter. Tell people what they mean to you. Life is precious and none of us should ever take a single day for granted. [00:16:17] Speaker B: Well done, Jenny. [00:16:18] Speaker A: Sorry. [00:16:20] Speaker B: And you are very special to me. [00:16:22] Speaker A: And same. And that is that thing, isn't it? Like you've always said, like, let them know. And I think even if you didn't know the girls, you've been through tragedy yourselves or whatever. It's just such an important. I hope that can be something that comes out of this that people just love a bit harder and a bit nicer. [00:16:44] Speaker B: Yeah, no, totally, totally. Oh, it is unfortunate there's something as dramatic and tragic as this happening makes us all go, oh, take a step back and think, oh, crikey, Ashi. No, I need to show that love a little bit more. I need to show that appreciation a little bit more and being a bit more grateful, a bit more appreciative of stuff and what people do or, you know, that, that kind of thing. I just, yeah, it's. It's just such a shame that that has to happen. Something such so tragic has to happen for us to think about that. [00:17:20] Speaker A: But there is the. I mean you will know more about it than me, but the British Eventing Support Trust have put out and we'll put all the details in the episode captions. If anyone is struggling, there's obviously riders minds, especially if you're doing this for a living. Do you know what I mean? Like it can really shape you. [00:17:40] Speaker B: And the British Eventing Support Trust does exactly the same thing. They have a helpline so you know, give them a ring. If you're struggling or if you're at a loss as you know as how to feel or how you are feeling, then get in touch, get, get on the phone and talk to them. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And like I said, I will put all the details of that kind of scroll down from the way you press play on the episode and it will all, all be there. And I, I didn't know Kerry at all but like you say, she was quite active on, on the social media and I mean the woman must have had the biggest heart in the world because she messaged she was a fan of the podcast, which is just amazing. I still get shocked that people voluntarily listen to us on A on a daily basis. But anyone who enjoys this podcast is, is one of us, has our sense of humor and obviously loves their horse and just wants to be part of this silly ride and enjoy it. [00:18:40] Speaker B: But she, she especially, she especially loved the pod. The pub pod. [00:18:44] Speaker A: Yes, and the Amberly Snyder pod. She sent messages saying how inspiring Amberly was. But she, I am anyone who's a fan of the podcast and listens to the podcast has known that I've had a rant on here about my own hormonal issues and body confidence issues and actually ironically logged on here today going, God, I look old, Simon, I need a facelift. And she sent, I mean the longest of messages many times to the Shut up and Ride podcast, Instagram, basically saying about how much our bodies change and exercising is an investment, not punishment and how we should grow our, our bodies strong to help us in the future. And as she says, our top challenge as women is to be more than how we appear. We need to stop judging our worth, our outer appearance, because really it's just a shell. And she said to me, no one ever remembers what you look like in 10 years time. They remember how funny you are or how you made them feel. Start by loving yourself truly and deeply because you are really awesome human, Jenny, and the least interesting thing about you is the size of your genes. And I feel like if that message from Kerry can be passed on to everybody, she said, also, nothing about starving yourself will ever make you feel good and make any sense. I think we often think we will be happy with our bodies when we lose a stone, we get face lift or Botox and we always change the goal posts. Ultimately our bodies change and grow with age. The more respect we show our bodies and the more we can be grateful to them, the better our bodies will be. Just, I hope by just sharing this message, just like it really does show, doesn't it? Like me getting a facelift or losing a stone really is not important. It's about enjoying your life and being grateful that I'm here and I have two wonderful children and a wonderful husband and awesome dogs and I get to breathe this wonderful air and have friends like you. I think that's what's so important. And I reading Kerry's messages today is just really giving me a kick up the butt. So Kerry, thank you very much and I hope that legacy lasts with a few people and hope that kicks home. [00:21:14] Speaker B: I mean that is just, that's such a lovely message. Isn't it unbelievable what she said? It's just, it's so lovely. And. Yeah, and so we need to. Yeah, I think that's a. Yeah, a great message to. To put out there. Yeah. What a lovely lady. [00:21:32] Speaker A: I think both of them would want us to shut up and ride. [00:21:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes, definitely. [00:21:41] Speaker A: Quite frankly. Yeah. Just. And for you. And obviously this. This would be advice for people out there. And mentally, you're quite strong sometimes on the outside, not so much on the inside. But have you got any advice for anyone who's feeling like this has shocked them and might be doubting their love for the sport or next time they go out, cross country course or. [00:22:10] Speaker B: I think the main thing that you need to do is be kind to yourself and give yourself time. And if you need time, make sure you do give yourself time. I got straight back out there the next day and. But I. But I have had to have a bit of a conversation with myself about it and I went show jumping today. I took seven horses show jumping today. And again, I kind of, you know, obviously, seven horses, that's quite intense. There's a lot to think about. There's a lot to do. But there was the odd moment. I was like, God, does what happened at the weekend is pretty bad and why are you doing this? And. But I've had a really nice time with my horses today. And so spend time with your horses. And, you know, they're amazing because it obviously being involved with horses has created this awful tragedy, but also I find them so therapeutic and so wonderful to be around and they really. They really help. So be kind to yourself, take your time, spend time with the horses, spend time with your friends, spend time with your loved ones. Don't put too much pressure on yourself, basically, I think. I think that's probably the best advice to give. And when it comes down to getting back on the horse and getting on and getting out, competing to remember how much you enjoy it and how much you love it and look back to those times when it's gone really well and remember why you enjoy it so much. I think that's why I'm waffling on, but I kind of. [00:23:49] Speaker A: Not at all. I don't think you are waffling. [00:23:55] Speaker B: But yeah, it's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. That's it. Also, that is my advice. [00:24:05] Speaker A: Don't be scared to go down a level or. [00:24:09] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely, yeah. Just take your time. Like I say, I think the main thing is to be kind to yourself. And that's in every sense. And like you say, if that means going down a level or even two or three levels, do it. [00:24:21] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, and there is no harm as well in saying you don't want to do it anymore. You know, I mean, just finding happiness in not competing or training or just hacking or. Do you know what I mean? I think sometimes we, we buy these expensive horses and do all this stuff and I just remember, like, I did love going cross country, but the dressage and the show jumping, goodness gracious, I could have done without it. And you feel like you're doing all this work, you've got to have, you've got to compete at the end of it, but you don't, you don't have to compete. It's not essential. Or if you do get competing, you don't have to finish. It's all about what you enjoy and the process and do you know what I mean? And that, that being part of the eventing family or riding, not riding. Do you know what I mean? You can still be part of eventing in so many ways. So I think it is just important to not put pressure on yourself and just keep enjoying it. [00:25:17] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:25:18] Speaker A: Totally Right. [00:25:21] Speaker B: And don't belittle yourself if you are having anxious thoughts or if you are getting nervous. Don't belittle that. Explore it, talk through. Don't just keep it all inside, talk about it. [00:25:37] Speaker A: That's very important. It's good to talk. [00:25:39] Speaker B: It is very good to talk. It's very. It's good to talk about that. It's good to talk about how your feelings are about, about this tragedy and about, you know, grief. You know, it's good to kind of [00:25:48] Speaker A: get it all out there and anyone who's struggling, do send us a messages. We're always happy to, when we can try as much as possible and reach out and reply and, and yeah, and just share, share a bit of love. Hug someone you love and hopefully in time it will feel a bit easier. But obviously our thoughts are with the families and friends and it is just monumentally shit. [00:26:17] Speaker B: Yeah, it really is. [00:26:20] Speaker A: I would like to end this podcast because we are just keeping it short and sweet today in tribute to Sophie and Kerry. On a nice note, we get messages all the time and I try and get through all of them, but we've had this lovely lady, Lel Brown, reach out who's a big fan of the podcast and she has asked us to give a shout out to Izzy, her incredible daughter, who apparently is also a big fan of the podcast. She listens to us every week and she loves the podcast. But more than that, this is going to make me cry as well, because if my Daughter turns out like this, I'm going to be absolutely bloody delighted. Simon Greave. More than that, she's an exceptional human that I just can't believe we made. I like this. This is how I talk. I made that human. That's what my kids go, you can't put suntan lotion on me. I was like, I made you. I can do that if I want to. At just 15, 15 too young to be listening to the podcast. I think, Izzy, I think you're all right. At just 15, she does everything in shouty caps. This is written. At just 15. She does everything for her events. Finds them, books them with a bit of financial support, obviously works out the training she needs to do, all the prep she needs to do and the timing on the day. She packs the trailer and does it all herself. All I have to do is make the picnic drive and do as I'm asked. I am a horsey mum. But empowering her in this way has really accelerated her skills and means we have a fabulous stress free day out. No brat attacks from this young lady, just appreciation and hard graph. Keep being awesome. We love you. Oh my God. Sorry guys. Sorry listeners. Emotional me today. I need to change my estrogen patch. I just thought that would be a lovely way because it's such a wonderful sport and obviously how cool to have a daughter that's so invested in horses. And by the way, Lel, if you're at an event Simon's at, make sure you pack him a G and T and something. What would you have in your picnic, Simon? [00:28:25] Speaker B: Oh God, my picnic. Oh, I do love a pork pie. [00:28:28] Speaker A: Oh, do you? [00:28:29] Speaker B: One of those little. There's the little individual ones, like a real crusty one. [00:28:33] Speaker A: Oh, a mowbray or whatever they're called. [00:28:35] Speaker B: Mowbray. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:28:38] Speaker A: M S Pork pie. Right. But I just thought that would be a nice way to, to wrap up. [00:28:45] Speaker B: It is. And because it, it's, it's the most, it's the most wonderful sport. It really is because it's, there are so many elements to it that are wonderful. It brings people together. Like, you know, just talking about that like, you know, they mother. Daughters do it together and, and you meet so many people along the way and horses are amazing and it's, it makes you work hard, it makes you play hard, it makes you enjoy being out in the, in the fresh air, like galloping along that, you know, all the kind of. What's the word? Excitement, adrenaline. It's. But then. But yet there's also like so much love and calmness and quiet and. Yeah, it is the most incredible sport and it's so wonderful and. And I'm sorry that what's happened has happened. You know, it's just. It's just awful and it puts such a dampener on the whole thing. But, you know, Sophie was the person she was because of the. Of her love of eventing. And I don't know about Kerry, but I'm pretty sure she was the same. So it's in that way. It's such a wonderful sport. Yeah, sorry, I've now gone off on your. You were finishing off on something really positive. But that is positive. It is like, you know, it's an amazing. It is an amazing sport, and please don't forget that. [00:30:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And just. Let's all share this love, guys. Be kind to each other. Give someone you love a hug. Give someone you don't know a hug. Just go up to a random eventing and say, do you want to hug some Lily? I'm a big hugger. I'm a big hugger. Right, Simon, Grieve. I'm sending you a hug through this podcast. [00:30:29] Speaker B: I know. I'm sending you a hug all the way to Canada. [00:30:32] Speaker A: All the way to Canada. Auntie James, who I know is in the background somewhere, and I just. There's not enough love in the world for how much I love you. And just, yeah, stay safe, but enjoy your ponies. And we love Benji, too. And yeah, I'm just. I'm just terribly sorry, but I'm going to end it with what I know that. Well, Kerry, I know, was a big fan of the podcast and I know she would like us to just end it with Simon Greaves in tribute to Sophie and Kerry. Shut up and ride.