Freddy Steele: From Stunts to Dressage & Unlocking the Horse’s Mind

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Simon, you're a coach. Any of your clients ever think about getting more out of their eventing journey? [00:00:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. It's all about learning and it's all about being prepared for your competition. And British Venting have bought out a new program which is called Be Prepared. What they've got is a hub of information where you can watch videos, you can watch professionals showing you how to do things and it gives you checklists about what you need to do in order to be prepared for your first event or any event. So. So it's really cool. [00:00:27] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a free program that be of design to help riders learn and connect and grow. And you don't actually have to be a member, Simon, you can be a non member. It supports grassroots riders all the way up through the levels with knowledge, skills and confidence just to make sure that everyone just enjoys every stage. [00:00:46] Speaker B: Enjoyment is really important and the best way of achieving that is by having your eyes dotted and your T's crossed so that you're properly prepared for the competition and for the day. And that's not just your standard rider, it's also parents, it's also partners, it's also top riders, everybody, it's, this is something that is good for everybody to go and kind of remind yourself, have [00:01:07] Speaker C: a little bit of a refresher course [00:01:08] Speaker B: about what is important and what you need to be preparing for. So it's definitely, it's a really good thing to get involved with. [00:01:13] Speaker A: So go onto the British Eventing website and use this free learning hub. You can access bite sized videos, expert advice, practical checklists, whatever suits you. Plus they're going to be doing some in person campsite, bringing the learning to life with coaching workshops and Q and A sessions from some brilliant industry professionals. [00:01:33] Speaker B: From preparation and planning to mindset fitness and competition knowhow it's all about practical learning that works. [00:01:39] Speaker A: So make sure you check out British Eventing's website and be prepared. Welcome to the Shut Up a Ride podcast. We have no Siamese because he's off being brilliant and amazing doing his demo, but apparently he might drop in unexpectedly. We don't know, we just don't know. He's an international man of mystery. We of course sponsored by the wonderful, the brilliant, the amazing Charles Owen. And I have a Benji today and I have a guest. I'm not going to introduce our guest yet but, but Benji's looking very cheeky. He's got a smile, he's got his summer glow about him. He's so handsome. [00:02:25] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm actually impressed. I'm Going to give myself a pat on the back actually at the moment [00:02:30] Speaker A: because oh, here we go. [00:02:31] Speaker C: We are sponsored by Charles Owen and I've actually been posting videos wearing my Charles Owen hat recently. [00:02:38] Speaker A: That fucking time. What can I say? [00:02:40] Speaker C: You should, I have to say. Do you know what's funny though because George actually asked me. I was riding this little dun horse of mine bridal less and I've always been all these new bridal horses I've been riding, I've been wearing my hat and George said why is that? And I was like, well number one, the horses are a bit sharp but number two, honestly it's because of what happened with those ladies eventing and having wild and stuff and I just thought, you know what if I'm gonna be doing stupid stuff without a bridle on, on horses that are a bit Larry, I'm going to wear a hat when I'm at home. So yeah, Charles Owen keeping me safe, that, that affected me more I reckon than, than I realized. [00:03:21] Speaker A: Well, Sophie and Kerry, their legacy lives on and hopefully if they can do some good in saving your noggin, well that can be nothing but a good thing. I've like I, I just am very grateful then because I want you to protect that beautiful head of yours. And talking of beautiful heads. [00:03:39] Speaker C: Oh God, sorry, yeah. Charles Owen, I'll need a face guard because it's not the head that's beautiful to be honest. So like a full face plate, like a polo player would be great. [00:03:49] Speaker A: I love the self congratulatory face admiration right now. [00:03:53] Speaker C: But we have a guest and it's my second guest. We've only been doing this for multiple years and I've organized the second guest. [00:04:03] Speaker A: Wow. Wow people. No, no, organize is a strong word. Ben, you passed on a number. [00:04:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I text Freddie and was like yo, do you want to come on my podcast? [00:04:14] Speaker A: And then who organised it? [00:04:15] Speaker C: Yeah, and then I get to feel all professional because like the same with Freddie and Caleb, I'm like oh okay, Jenny sorts out all the dates and stuff. So I'll pass your number onto Jenny and I'll go back to being useless in life and smiling while I do it. [00:04:28] Speaker A: All right then, well you can do the introduction. Introduce our guests. [00:04:33] Speaker C: So actually in all seriousness, the reason I wanted our guest on today is because I think he has come like a shooting star into the industry years ago. I can't remember exactly, he'll tell us when he's on but I went from not having a clue who this guy was. He didn't exist on the radar in the industry. Now he is one of the biggest names in our industry. You'll have seen him at massive events such as the National Equine Show. He's got a man of many, many talents and I can't wait for him to tell us all. He is a beautiful bridal less rider. He does beautiful dressage, he's a liberty artist, he teaches stunt falls, he does it all. And he's possibly one of the most creative people I have ever met. This is the founder of Steel Horse. Ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce you to Freddie Steele. [00:05:27] Speaker A: Wow. [00:05:27] Speaker D: Thank you so much, Ben. That was. That was the best introduction I think I've ever had, to be honest. From anything, anywhere, stage, anything. That was good, that [00:05:41] Speaker A: Freddie. I've known him about 10 years and he's never spoken about me that nicely. So that's a good introduction, Benjamin. [00:05:48] Speaker D: Very good. I think he helped keep me quiet after his introduction about himself, you see. So he's. He's playing that card. [00:05:57] Speaker C: I would not want to introduce most of the guests. I don't have a clue who they are. I just know who you are. So I'm like, yeah, it's eas. [00:06:05] Speaker D: Well, thank you for having me. [00:06:06] Speaker C: Oh, no, thank you for coming on. How long ago was it that you ran away with the circus and joined Crazy World? [00:06:16] Speaker D: I want to say 20, 18. When was that? How many years ago was that? Eight, nine. [00:06:25] Speaker C: Eight years? [00:06:26] Speaker D: Yeah, eight years ago? Yeah, about eight years ago. About eight years ago. And yeah, it was a bit of a gamble, like I'll tell you, I'll give you a brief, a brief, brief rundown of the story before then and to that point and beyond. So I started off, I did Duke of Edinburgh at school and needed to volunteer somewhere and I'd always ridden horses. Pony club up for, you know how you normally do growing up. Mum Road. So I got into it in very, very typical pony club and for Duke of Edinburgh I volunteered at a yard that did problem solving with like badly behaved horses, so to speak. And so I volunteered there, got kicked out of school and then got offered a job where I volunteered. So it just kind of. [00:07:16] Speaker A: Can I just ask, what did you get kicked out of school for? Not. Or is that not allowed? [00:07:20] Speaker D: I probably shouldn't disclose it, but it was kind of like multiple reasons. Half of the time I didn't turn up because I was down the horses. So I think that had something to do with it. But yeah. So then I got offered a job on the back of volunteering and from there straight into working with horses at 16 is a working student. So apprenticeships weren't a thing. So I'd work at McDonald's at nights to pay for my fuel and, yeah, just turned 17, so paid for my fuel and rent at home to then get to the horses in the day and then just went from there. And by the time it got to 2019 and coming into the crazy stunt world was I've kind of got the years of, kind of love of teaching, training horses and wanted to set up on my own, but didn't want to rent a whole yard, it was too daunting. So found somewhere that allowed me to rent one box and one field at a time as long as I was a student for them. And it just so happened what they did was this crazy world of films, horse archery, trick riding, stunts, the law. And then it kind of merged the two together. And it is what it is today from that, really. So it's by accident I ended up in this. In this circus, but it was like it was meant to be in some weird way. Jenny looks speechless. [00:08:45] Speaker A: No, it's more because I've obviously been doing this a bloody long time and I am a follower of the sport side of it and I always have. I trained in Ireland, trained show jumping, trained eventing, trained that. Very kind of typical. And it was only when. And I'd obviously seen Francois Pinon and I've seen Monty and I've worked with Monty and Kelly and all these people. But it was only when I met Ben did my eyes really open up to how the two worlds could collide, if you know what I mean. It was always like, well, Monty Roberts breaks the horses in and produces them that way and then you get to ride them or Kelly does her things. But there was never an overlap of these worlds, whereas I feel like that is happening more and more and more now. We're getting to see the benefits, no matter what type of discipline you do. Then I moved to Canada and then suddenly this, this Freddie Steele pops up on my social medias, like here and here and here and here and here. And I'm like, who the fuck is this Freddie Steele chap? He is everywhere but you. You've made, but you've done it in a way that I see you everywhere, but I know absolutely nothing about you. It's a bit of a kind of smoke and mirrors. You do make it about whoever you're working with or the horses. It's actually very like you're not, oh, hi, look at me. Do you know what I mean? It's very much like you've seemed to have worked with a lot of people, but it's always seems to kind of misdirection. I know so little about you as a person. [00:10:13] Speaker D: Yeah, I think that that's coming across now in more what I do. Like a lot of the shows, I do a lot of shows now. And a lot of the shows what I love is the creative and the storyline. So the shows I do, I direct them and I kind of get creative, write the stories and make the characters, but I'm not necessarily the main character. I kind of see who we've got, who's about who does what things. I make the story around that and my passion, I love like I love performing, but creating the stories and, and all of that around it, that's really something I love doing. So like the last weekend we changed the show because we had different riders to add Aladdin. Really, really cool. He does the Roman riding, stands up on the two. And I go, well, he's gotta be the lead guy. Cause he stands up and look cool on the horses. So he just flipped the storyline from a different perspective. Cause I was the narrator. And that for me makes the whole show better. Because everyone's like, wow, this guy standing on the horses, he is the guy for the show. And that obviously the guy and the skill and what we're doing changes all the time with who we're working with, the horses we have available. And you know, with horses, some go lame. Different shows have different amounts of, you know, it just all changes all the time. But being able to flip the narrative, flip the stories and change it to kind of suit the horses, the best things that they do, their strengths and then the rider's strengths, that's just really cool. And I think it's. It comes across to the public really, really well. Really, really well. [00:11:49] Speaker C: Can I, can I just jump in? Because I know what you're talking about and I know how creative you are. Freddie, Jenny and our listeners. Freddie's taken creative to a different bloody level. [00:12:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:04] Speaker C: When you think of a horse show, it's either a blatant showing off, which is what I do, where you wear a nice looking costume, but it's. You're just. They're not doing a perform, you're doing a performance, but you're not telling a story. Then your classic go tos would be a joust, a Roman chariot gladiator show or a Wild west or like a Cossack thing. I do not know how you conjure. I've seen Freddie do the Matrix on horsebacks. I've seen Freddie do Top Gun on horseback. You've done Avatar on horseback. And your latest creation is. I think it's. I, I can say this, can't I? It's Mad Max Fury Road with a combination of horses and motorbikes. Like you are nothing. You have an idea and you make it happen. [00:13:01] Speaker D: Yeah, the. So some of the smaller ones, it's almost, it's almost like a theme, you know, I have an idea. So one of my big things for maybe five, six years was I want to do a show with live musicians, that I really want to do a show with live musicians. But no one's that organized or has the budget enough to help me work out where I can get something in the arena that's plugged in and amplified that my horse doesn't have to run over a load of leads. Until the Top Gun Ben was on about. And I managed to get one of my friends that's a singer in with Holly. Holly, my girlfriend, does a lot of performing with me as well. And we managed to do a sequence to Top Gun with a live singer. And that was a six year, a six year plan then put into place. There's other things just in my head that I just come up with. Usually it's about one o' clock in the morning because I can't sleep. This idea will ping in and my notes page will go like. I've got about 57 notes pages just all like super long. And that's where the ideas come and I just like write them down and like for that one six years it's not possible. And then something makes it and I go out. Let's try and make this happen now. And it's just there's so many creatives in this industry which I think, like you say, Ben, for the listeners, it's almost like theater, like putting theater into the equestrian world. Like going to see a show on a night out, whether it's Cirque du Soleil or something else. That's the kind of thing that we're trying to achieve in the long run, obviously we're building the scale and shorter shows are kind of like your trailers and you build up to half an hour show. But long term, I want to put a two, two and a half hour night, like show at night, the full shebang, like Cirque du Soleil, really, that's, that's the ultimate goal. So equestrian, folk, normal people who want to go out for entertainment can go out, have a lovely evening, horsey or not. And Enjoy themselves and see some good horsemanship. I always want to promote the good horsemanship, but see that and have a good time and that's. That's an end goal, really. So, yeah, it's. It's having horses, obviously. Everything in my life revolves around that, but, yeah, having that as a goal. [00:15:16] Speaker C: I love the casual, throwaway horsemanship in your shows, like, so I've. I. I really wanted to come to the New Forest to watch when you took Horsepower Fury there last week, just couldn't make it work. I did get to see it at Horse of the Year show, which also. We're going to retouch on that because that's insane. First time you did it was at Hoy's, but in the middle of this stunt show, I also have to shout out for Holly a little bit because Freddie's described Holly as his girlfriend who rides. She is shit hot. [00:15:50] Speaker D: Holly's the reason all of this happens, if we're honest. Holly is the reason this shit doesn't sink. [00:15:58] Speaker C: But then halfway through this stunt show where there's like. There's a bit like Freddie goes from a galloping horse onto the back of someone who's on a quad bike. There's people jumping over motorbikes, motorbikes jumping fire. And then Holly just goes into the most beautiful passage, half pass in the middle of this chaos. And I was like, look at that. Like, you don't even. You just throw it in, which is, like, just beautiful. I have to ask, what was scarier Horsepower Fury at hoys, because it was the first time and it was hoys or taking it out of the indoor format into an outdoor format and taking it to the New Forest? [00:16:41] Speaker D: The New Forest reason being, the week before hoys, we were all together. The week before New Forest, none of us were. And I was a horse short, so I had to draft a horse in last minute. So. Yeah. [00:16:54] Speaker A: How does that even work? [00:16:56] Speaker D: Well, so one of my clients has a lovely buckskin Spanish horse, and I backed it maybe eight years ago, and I needed it for a show last year because I'd got shorter horses. And when we have like two or three shows in a row, I like to save some of the horses and not give them such a. You know, because it's. It's usually harder ground. They water it and they do well, but it's a longer period of hard work for the horses and I don't have as many, so I need to kind of try and save them. So I messaged her and I go, can I just borrow your horse? For a month, train it to be okay with fire and potentially use it in a show if it's okay after a month. And she's go, yeah, go for it. And it was. It was grand. So I used it last year for a couple of shows and then gave it back. It hacks out the lanes of Norfolk on the buckle. Can be a little bit spooky. Just like, you know, a typical Spanish horse that just walks about, doesn't do a lot. Lovely, lovely boy. But just quiet lifestyle in Norfolk, you know, nothing. Nothing's happening. Very quiet. And then I was, what? New Forest came straight after the game fair. So I had demonstrations at both as well. So I messaged her and said, can I borrow this horse for a demo? Thinking, you know, I haven't worked it in about a year now. I'll just ease it in lightly. I'll be able to use it for a demo and explain what's going on. Well, I took it to all the. All the rehearsals, and it was actually. It remembered the fire. It was okay. So I put it a little bit in the first show. And then the New Forest, I thought in the rehearsal I was like, right, let's just bring it out so it's not left on its own and screaming in the stable. And he was grand. I just thought, just follow the motorbike round, three laps. Just. We won't run it towards you. We won't do anything crazy. Just follow it around. And he was like, yeah, okay, I got this four days of show in. He was like, well, what do you want? Hold my beer? And honestly, I was mesmerized because I was thinking, I was persuaded to take him in there because I was thinking, now, this is just gonna. This is gonna create. This is not gonna go well. And I was persuaded by the team. I'll just take him. He'll be all right, like. And he actually was. He actually was just followed the motorbike. And I think it's because we've had so many crazy ideas and we're doing so many weird and wonderful things for him. He's rolling his eyes and it's just the next thing. It's just the next thing. He's like, well, I've been all right in all these other situations. I've got my herd, I've got my pals. I'll probably be all right in this situation as well. And he. To my surprise, I didn't give him enough. I didn't give him enough credit. It's my fault. I hold my hands up before for not Going, you might be all right. And yeah, he absolutely, absolutely was. So I think the answer is always having a fundamental on all the horses. If you've got a baseline of weird and wonderful ways, the next weird and wonderful idea doesn't seem so out there for them, if that makes sense at all. [00:19:46] Speaker A: It is actually like, sorry to be a bit boring, but it's something I bang on about when I'm teaching cross country. And Simon and I talk about a lot. Like, when you're training a horse to go cross country for the first time, it's gone a bit wrong, but you've gone, good boy, good girl, pat, pat, and get over it. And they've gone, oh, okay, that went wrong. But then it was fine. And you told me I was fucking brilliant. And now it's all it. That's how horses sound, by the way, in their heads. Then the next time they come, they go, well, last time that was scary. I got a pat and I was told I was wonderful, so maybe I'll jump it. And then when you take them out on after all your training and build up and you go cross country and you see all these weird and wonderful things that are terrifying that they've never seen because they don't get to walk the course, they go, well, everything was fine. Every time you asked me to do something, it was fine. I got told I'm great, so sod it, I'll do it. And like you say, like, having that faith in your training, it doesn't always go to plan, obviously. Yeah, but this is why when I'm. I've got to commentate later this afternoon and I know someone will stop and I know someone will tell that horse off. And I'm like, well, that horse stopped. He's obviously stopped for a reason, or she has, and. And now you've told it off, why the would it want to come around and jump that again? Like, it is that mentality, isn't it? Tell them it's okay and they'll want to do it for you. So you've obviously put in those fundamentals and groundwork for the horse to go slightly different to a cross country fence. Throw fire at me, Dan. [00:21:09] Speaker D: Yeah, but it's the same. It's exactly the same in any industry. And that's what I'm trying to explain to people. Because it's not just the shows, you know, I'm trying to bring the horsemanship into the dressage to begin with and go. It's all the same. If your horse is confident and forward and trusts you he'll do whatever the job is you want. And actually seeing a horse, not seeing a cross country course and having to jump it, I would argue is more scary for the horse than seeing something he's already seen before and repeating the same pattern. Because my horse can follow fire or follow a bike because he's done it before and he's just learned to follow and he's confident. Whereas the cross country horse has got to do something he's never seen before, which I would say is a lot more daunting for the rider and the horse than maybe what we do in the shows that's prepared and rehearsed as well. What would you say, Ben? [00:22:02] Speaker C: I think, yeah, the unknowns are always gonna be the thing that gets you. Like, I always like when we go to a show. Once I've seen the arena, I feel better because I'm always worried if there's going to be anything that's going to like screw us or catch us out. But I know exactly what you mean. I always say that one of the best parts about doing what we do is my job is to make people smile, clap, laugh and have a good time when they see what they see. I don't have a set course of show jumps. I don't have a set dressage test or a set course of cross country or anything like that. So we can, we can move and adapt. Whereas like you say, it's that unknown and unknowable. And I find that actually the best way to prepare horses for that sort of thing is just as Jenny said, repeated positive experiences almost irrelevant to how the horse acts or what the outcome is. If you can get the horse to have positive experiences, no matter if they do well or badly in whatever task we give them, then at least they're open to playing the game that we put at them. And I find it so interesting, like you're saying, I've found this a few times. Once you've taught a horse a few what I would call daft things, once they've like, oh, this is fire. Get used to fire. This is a crazy costume. [00:23:24] Speaker B: Get used to this. [00:23:25] Speaker C: This is a motorbike. After you've got a few of these out the way, what you have is a horse that becomes more like a somewhat not jaded but eye rolling work colleague that when you bring out the next crazy thing, the horse is just like, okay, what now? Like, I know this. You bring something out, I look at it warily, you're nice to me, I get some food, I decide I'm not scared of it. And then we crack on with life and they learn the. The pattern. [00:23:55] Speaker A: I feel like this is how I feel working with you, Ben, except for you don't give me food. So if we can change this, I might be more forgiving of you not answering your whatsapps, Just. Just putting it out there. Just. [00:24:06] Speaker D: Don't worry, Jenny. Don't take me personally. Don't take it personally. [00:24:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:12] Speaker C: Singing Fred yeah, I'm awful to everybody. I'm egalitarian with my useless replies. Not even my wife is special. Everybody. Everybody gets, yeah, the same. [00:24:27] Speaker A: It's all right, Freddie. I'll give you Jill, his mum's number, so. [00:24:29] Speaker D: Oh, no, don't worry, I've already got it. [00:24:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:35] Speaker C: So now you go. [00:24:38] Speaker A: I was just gonna say just in the same way as equestrian sports gets pushback from. From the horse haters or. And. And in some regards, sometimes it's perfectly well placed pushback, sometimes it's not. Do you guys ever get pushback on the. Oh, this is mean to horses. Horses don't like it because genuinely some of it is deserved in the horse world, but a lot of it comes from a place of not understanding how much horses can enjoy the work. I think Caleb Deegan did it brilliantly when he said, as long as you understand that it's not on a horse's bingo card to do this and what they. But when they do learn to love it, they really do. And if you know horses, they do. But have you guys. Do you get any of that at shows? Do people come up to you questioning, like the. I suppose, the morals behind it and the ethical side of it? [00:25:33] Speaker D: I was expecting. I was expecting it. A hoise with the motorbikes, if I was completely honest with you. And we got nothing. Nothing. The worst comment, the only negative comment we got is someone online saying it looked like a satanic ritual. That's the only negative comment that we had of the whole thing. You know, obviously we train the horses. Obviously we're not going to put horses in a situation where they're. They're super scared. But we got no, no feedback from the bikes because it's quite an unusual thing for people to see horses and bikes together. Um, but actually the two shows, we've not had any. My main one over the years has been the hat, the whole hat thing. Um, but apart from that, not really. I think I've seen some stuff about laying down horses. Some people don't like that, but I've never personally had any of that. Have you been. Had any stigma around the Kind of stuff we do with the horses. [00:26:33] Speaker C: Never in person, which is what I always find really funny. [00:26:36] Speaker B: Never ever. [00:26:37] Speaker C: No one has ever come up to me, to my face and said, this is an issue. Or can you explain that? Or that made me uncomfortable. No one who's ever actually seen us live has this. I get grief online, but that's the risk of being online, isn't it? But one thing I've found really interesting recently is I no longer get grief off equestrians. So equestrians get it, whereas it will be people that are obviously animal lovers. Because, of course, if you leave negative comments, I've got to go check your profile out to see who you are and what you're doing with your life. And they tend to be people that are very into animals. And. How do I put this? Being offended and standing for a cause is what they do. And I can tell that because when I click on their Facebook profile, every single post is a sign this petition, you know, stop this. You know, it's like, debrie, I live in East Anglia. Your petition about battery hangers is relevant, but that is in America. We have different laws over here. So it's. It's like, that's where I see it coming from. I actually thought you might get the opposite or might capitalize on the opposite. After horsepower, power, fury, I was expecting a steel horse. Get your horse bomb proof with traffic push after this show, because you clearly can get your horses absolutely unflappable with those bluming bikes. [00:28:17] Speaker D: Yeah, they. They get used to it, but, like, you know, it's the. It's a fundamental. So it's not the getting the horse used to the bike, like Jenny said. It's the. It's the before work that's done that people don't want to do. And that's what I already teach, you know, teach horse to go forward, back, left, and right. And that's the bit that people don't do, and that's the bit I need when. When they want to follow the bikes. But what I'm trying to push now a little bit more is into this dressage world and into this kind of sport world, I guess, of showing the natural horsemanship [00:28:50] Speaker C: before you go down that road, just to make people aware. Freddie, unlike most of us, actually will pull on his dressage whites and climb on a warmblood and takes part in the real equestrian world as well as being a daft person like us. [00:29:07] Speaker D: Well, I'm trying to. I'm trying to. I'm trying to make the two relatable to each Other, because it's very much like competition side. What are these weirdos doing? Natural horsemanship, shaking ropes, wearing whips. La di da. And it's almost. It's becoming better over the years. Right? But it's almost two sizes. Like your leisure side teacher, leisure horses and your professionals already do it. And I'm trying to go. Well, there's a little bit of help for the way the professional horses go with some of this training of the horse's brain and, and how they process and how they do. So my mission really for the last five years in that sense has been to comb the two. Because starting off, you know, it's a lot of problem horses, it's a lot of leisure horses that we needed to hack down the road quietly in a walk on the buckle and not throw someone off or overreact. But I've always been competitive. Like Ben said, I'll. I'll throw on the whites. I'll go in the dressage arena. And I want to kind of show the use of horses learning to focus more through lack of anxiety and more understanding. So if I. If the horse focuses more on the job, they've got. Okay, let's break this down. They've got a hundred percent energy. If they're wasting 50% of energy on anxiety and then 50% on focus, that's 100% gone. Whereas if I can get the anxiety down to 10%, because obviously there's always going to be tension, there's always going to be a little bit of anxiety. If I can get that down to 10% through understanding, through working with the mind of the horse, the way we help horses think and process to get the functionality of the job to 90%, then solely we're gonna see scores and everything go up. And I did a little bit this. Racehorses actually, I went, you know, energy's wasted through worry and tension and stress. So if we help the horse to not be stressed, there'll be more energy to run. And I'm kind of like, that's what I'm trying to produce. Firstly with dressage. Cause I've kind of brought up with a dressage background, but across all equestrian professional disciplines, where there's a job for the horse to do, where it counts, seconds count, tension marks count, and you know, all of that height counts in the jumping. It just so happens that dressage I know a tiny bit more about than jumping and the, the other disciplines. But that's really now my goal to, to merge the two worlds together of natural horsemanship. If the umbrella of Natural. You know, as much as we want to disagree or argue about the word natural, that's. That can last an hour or so. Yeah, yeah, we'll just use it in brackets. But link that world to the professional world of what we've already got at top level sport and see if we can help and create a better horse, better understanding for even better scores in that world. And that's kind of my, my goal, my focus and what I'm trying to do, which is why I get in the arena with these warm bloods and go, right, it's all good, me having my Lusitanos and my Portuguese and my Spanish and doing my circus stuff. But do people take that, that seriously in competition? Not really. So let me show the kind of two sides, so to speak. You know, horses are, horses are horse. [00:32:24] Speaker A: It's a bit like marginal gains really, but using. But with horses, because any sport at the top level, all athletes look at their marginal gains. Like, what is it that that athlete can do between getting out of bed in the morning and getting on that racetrack or getting on that, picking up that tennis racket to improve? Is it mindset, is it how, like what your trainers, how your trainers fit, how your shoelaces are done up, what clothing you wear, if you shave your legs or not? Do you know what I mean? Like, these are all marginal gains to just get those tiny bit of extra over your competitor. So it makes absolute sense that yes, the, like the riders now, I think have changed over the years and now, now the riders are getting fitter, they go to the gym more. But this to me makes total sense because you have to look at the horse as an athlete and if they are wasting that little bit of energy on anxiety, like how do you then fix that? Like before cross country, my horse used to be fucking nuts. Fine before the dressage, fine before the cross show jumping, nuts before the cross country. [00:33:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:29] Speaker A: What could I have done in that time to reduce that anxiety? Before I went, to be fair, he was 3/4 thoroughbred, so he was as fast as anything and never had time problems. But I never went round badminton, do [00:33:40] Speaker B: you know what I mean? [00:33:41] Speaker A: I wasn't a top level athlete, but it is almost the way you're chatting is that we need to look at the horses in that kind of as the athlete, but in the way you would look at a human. [00:33:53] Speaker C: It's very interesting linking it back to the podcast like we've just had. No, I'm not sure anybody's aware, but Simon did badminton just in case. [00:34:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Who, who's this Simon Chapman. Simon. [00:34:08] Speaker C: Simon gre. Yeah. This is like a little competition. Yeah. But Simon said that one of the biggest things that helped him, he talked about it when we did his badminton sort of debrief. He had a mindset coach that really focused in on cross country day. So if that part of the athletic partnership is helped so much from having coaching on how to control their emotion and feel safer in a high anxiety situation, it makes absolute logical sense. And I've never heard anybody put it so clearly as you have tonight, Freddie, about that idea about like, like a [00:34:45] Speaker D: horse mindset coach almost. It sounds a bit wacky, doesn't it? It the branded like that, but it almost is like a horse mindset coach. And with the eventing, you see all these horses go venting. They're great in the cross country and they're great in the show jumping. Trying to keep them on all four feet in the dressage arena or get into the dressage arena. You see them popping off all over the place due to the emotion. You know, they're fit, fit horses. They're, they're at the top of their game, they're ready to go around badminton and some of them are up, down, up, down, up, down, jogging, running around before they get into the dressage. And I just think I go, there's something we, there's something we can do to help those kind of horses not have to feel that tension to do those behaviors. And even if you're saving, you know, 5%, 10%, 2%, 1%, it's, it's then going to go for a higher performance, it'll save the pole in the last round potentially, you know, it's that kind of thing. So that's where my focus is going with it all really. That's where my passion for my day to day job, so to speak, lies. [00:35:46] Speaker C: I would take it to a longer place as well because I've had a very similar journey with my liberty. And a lot of old fashioned liberty was taught on the idea that if the horse runs off, you push it, you chase it and that's something like now I go completely against. A mark of pride for me is if a Liberty horse goes wrong, it grinds to a halt and just looks at me like I'm lost, but I'm chill. So what are we doing? And every moment your horse spends in that high stress emotional state and whatever body movements they do in that, not only are you ruining the performance for today, you're taking days, weeks, months, years off their life and their working career like And I think that's such a big thing as well. The calmer and more relaxed your horse can be when they work, the less because especially if we're going to ask them to do something like high level dressage, high level jumping, high level performance, doesn't matter what it is. You need an athletic animal and just like a normal athlete. Like, I highly doubt that, you know, the England football team are going out on a park run on the weekend or, you know, doing daft things because it's not worth putting their body through the hammer. And the same as our horses, we don't need to put that extra hammer through their body. And then I would also say making our aids heavier because when our horse loses their mind, that's when you're going to use more leg, that's when you're going to use more rein to try and manhandle safety. And that's going to damage your training in the long run as well. [00:37:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I see it quite a lot at shows. I've seen different people holding the horses backstage and someone's gone, well. And the horses suddenly got heightened because the arena's clapping. They're not in the arena at that time. And you see it all the time. Then just chucking them in the gob and pulling on the bridle to tell the horse off. Because it's got this level of anxiety. Cause it can feel the crowds getting more hyped up. Whereas what they should have is the tools of right. What does this horse need to bring it back down? Not just chucking it in the gob and turning it off to stop it from. But also one of the other things that's making me think of is this year I went, I was lucky enough to go to the World cup and see Becky win. I was working there. But the World cup in Texas this year was the biggest atmosphere I've ever seen in dressage. It was insane because the Texans were like, we don't know what this dressage thing is. They're playing music. Let's clap. [00:38:13] Speaker B: Woo hoo. [00:38:14] Speaker A: And I remember Patrick Kittle. It was so cool. And the riders really embraced it. It was amazing. But I remember Patrick Kittle going, if they clap on my center line, I'm not going to stop the first horse. Just not going to happen. I'm going to gallop out of this arena. He was absolutely shitting himself. But the thing is, all the horses actually cope with it really well. There are a few more exuberant flying changes. And Christian Simonson had a buck in his flying Tage. But honestly, the riders came out going, this is where dressage needs to go. This is what we need in our sport, this atmosphere, this. But the horses then have to have the toolkit to deal with it if we are going to create more atmosphere around dressage. And I just feel like this is such a good time for that kind of coaching and that mindset. For the mindset. Horse coaching. Yeah. [00:39:03] Speaker D: We can link this right back to when Ben said about Holly doing a dressage right through the middle of the stunt show. There's a reason we put this horse, Holly's top competition horse, in the middle of the stunt show with loud motorbikes and clapping and cheering. And that's for the training, because she's going to a world championship in working equitation in September. So we thought, right, this horse doesn't see an atmosphere because it's a dressage horse, It's a work and equitation horse, which some of you won't know what that is. It's a very small sport that's growing in this country. Three phases of dressage, an obstacle course that's marked like a dressage test and then obstacles at speed. So obviously, small sports, not much atmosphere. When you go straight to a world championship in Spain, where the thing originates from, obviously it's going to be a lot more lively. So at hoys, I was like, right, best atmosphere we've got. Let's get some high school dressage in there to get this horse used to it. And that's exactly why that horse came to the show and did his dressage moves in there, to get him used to those environments and the clapping and the cheering and the. Because we can't prepare it in any other way, we don't get that environment very much. It makes a beautiful part of the show, but that's why initially it was first introduced. [00:40:17] Speaker A: Can I ask a question about working equitation? [00:40:20] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. [00:40:22] Speaker A: Because it is very popular in Spain, isn't it? I've seen lots of videos, Spain and [00:40:26] Speaker D: Portugal, loads of it. [00:40:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:29] Speaker C: It's like if Grand Prix dressage and handy pony had a child, [00:40:36] Speaker A: But from a bitless bridle less point of view. And it might be the. This is where I'm ignorant, so educate me. A lot of those horses, when you see it, and the women look very extravagant and it looks very amazing, but a lot of those horses look like their nose is very firmly pinned to their chest and there's a lot of bitting going on. Yeah. Is that just because the breed carry themselves like that is that what's happening? Have I just seen a shit video? Educate me for any Steele. Because some of them I've seen, I'm like, oh, that does not look comfortable for the front end of that horse. [00:41:07] Speaker D: So you've got a little bit of. Mostly, I'd say Spain and Portugal. Spain and Portugal, the old school methods that are now dissolving a lot from these places. You know, they carry a lot of culture, so there's still a lot of old school ways of training that comes across with some of. Some of the horses as well as that they're quite short couples, so they do hold their neck in more. And the riders in Portugal more from the working equitation are more from the traditional lines. Whereas the dressage riders in Portugal and Spain are now going more towards kind of, you know, coming over and training with Carl, for example. They're going very much towards the correct dressage, nice dressage style. So you've got almost two splits in these countries. You've got traditional bull fighting against modern dressage, modern techniques. So it's. It's a little bit a. Good horsemanship, bad horsemanship, good rider, bad rider. It's a little bit where. Where it's coming from and where their education is coming from. Like, you know, a lot of our horses will like to tuck their neck in. You know, some of Ben's at liberty, when they're hot, they want to tuck their neck in. That's if you see a Liberty horse doing it, obviously it's not, you know, it's not. It's not that precious. So they do like to. But like you say, a lot of them are hard to watch because they do go more behind the vertical, but like British dressage as well, and fei, everyone's now working towards in the judging element of these sports, including working equitation, getting that nose further out, either straight or 5%. 5% in front of the vertical. And, you know, we promote all the time with our training. Correct training is ideally 5% in front of the vertical, not. Not behind. So, yeah, you will see, you will see videos coming out of those countries a lot where, where horses are, you know, ridden fairly firmly. And yeah, you do get that, but the top ones in the sport, you don't get that. So it's, it's, again, it's looking at the top, top competitors compared to the, you know, the ones more below. But, you know, we're trying to educate the sport. Holly's done it for 13 years. She's been in the senior team, competed internationally for that time came was finished sixth in the world in 2018 on a horse that I've now stolen for the stunt shows because he's semi retired from work and equitation. So I was like, right, he'll do. Come on, he's cool. Let's take him to do some fire and motorbikes. So, yeah, no, it's a great sport. It's a great sport. I think Ben's seen a little bit of it as well. [00:43:43] Speaker C: I've seen a bit of it. [00:43:44] Speaker B: I think. [00:43:44] Speaker C: I think. I think that that top horse that Holly's got at the moment, I think that's had enough work in equitation. I think that wants to be Freddie's next stunt horse. [00:43:55] Speaker D: I'll be lucky. [00:43:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that. Come on, Holly. Yeah, Freddie, Freddie needs that now. Go and make another one. You love making them. You'll be fine. [00:44:06] Speaker D: We have got a couple of broomhairs. We are making the next one. [00:44:10] Speaker A: I've seen. [00:44:10] Speaker C: I've seen your false. [00:44:12] Speaker A: Who is your inspo. Like, dressage, like in the liberty world, like, who are your heroes? Who, when you were growing up, were you like, I want to be like that person [00:44:24] Speaker D: growing up. It was John Whitaker, wasn't it? It was like over the Milton, wasn't it, over there? Yeah, John Whitaker, yeah. But then as I got into the kind of. This kind of world. Manuel Vega, very good rider from Portugal. He's. He's cool. I watch him and go, yeah, super. Not super nice stuff. Lorenzo. I really like the work Lorenzo does as well with. With his horses. Yeah, they're the two that spring to mind straight away. Straight away. And again, combine that kind of creative side. What I did combine the creative side with the functional. Functional side as well. Really? You're probably thinking, who the heck are both of those? You probably know Lorenzo from Bentor. Well, obviously Lorenzo's been about. But Manuel Vega, if you don't know. Yeah, look him up. Incredible. Some of the stuff he does with the wizards. [00:45:22] Speaker C: Yeah. Freddie. I had the traumatized of bringing up Manuel Vega to Jenny and Simon and they didn't know who he was, so they were spammed with Instagram videos. [00:45:33] Speaker D: This is real. [00:45:34] Speaker C: Look at him. So I have. I have to. [00:45:37] Speaker A: I've got. [00:45:38] Speaker C: I've got a good question for you, Freddie. I think so. Going off the topics that we've spoken about tonight, such as, you know, like you've said, being, to paraphrase, being the mindset coach for a horse, helping them find. [00:45:49] Speaker D: Hold on. I'm on 1%. Let me just get my charger. I'm on 1%. Half fire. Hold fire. [00:45:55] Speaker C: Hold fire, people, we're waiting. [00:46:02] Speaker D: Don't forget the question. [00:46:03] Speaker A: You are looking very handsome, Ben. [00:46:06] Speaker C: Thank you very much. [00:46:06] Speaker A: It definitely suits you. [00:46:08] Speaker C: Yeah, Winter doesn't suit me because I have to muck out like 35 stables a day. [00:46:12] Speaker A: Oh, look who it is. [00:46:14] Speaker C: Hello, Simi. [00:46:16] Speaker A: Simon's here. [00:46:18] Speaker B: I'm literally, I'm literally just about to go on. [00:46:21] Speaker A: How are you feeling? So for context, people, Simon has got his solo demo tonight. 250. Crowd very nervous. [00:46:30] Speaker C: No, it's gone up. [00:46:30] Speaker B: It's now. It's now 290. [00:46:33] Speaker A: Simon Grieve. How are you feeling? [00:46:35] Speaker D: I'm really scared. [00:46:37] Speaker C: Don't be bloody scared. You'll be incredible. [00:46:41] Speaker B: Okay. It's gonna be good. It's gonna be good. I just thought I'd say hello. I'm gonna have to go because I literally got five minutes just to kind of like go through my 10 minutes. I've got 10 minutes. It's all good. [00:46:50] Speaker C: You guys okay? [00:46:51] Speaker A: Yeah, we're good. We've got the wonderful Freddie Steele who's bringing out battery. [00:46:57] Speaker B: Oh, Freddie's reconnecting as we speak. [00:46:59] Speaker A: He is reconnecting. I think his phone might have died, but this is so exciting. What's the plan for this evening? What will they expect? [00:47:06] Speaker B: So I've got three horses, I've got my five year old first Cosy and then talking about, well, basics and taking it all nice and slow and then miracle, like that's the next level up and then Buster's doing a bit and then we're doing a Q and A at the end. But I'm going to kind of link it with how I, how I deal with my own nerves and like take it slowly when you start off and then make sure that you don't forget yourself when you're in the middle. And then when you're at the top, then, you know, don't expect yourself to be able to do so. So, yeah, so I'm hopefully it's going to be good. [00:47:38] Speaker A: Oh, my God. That's a lot of people as well. It is. What are you most nervous about? [00:47:46] Speaker B: The mic not working. Seriously. [00:47:49] Speaker C: I get that. [00:47:51] Speaker B: Seriously. Because it's. If it doesn't work, if the mic's not working, then we're absolutely screwed. Anyway, I'm gonna go, but love you. Love you both. And I'll speak to you soon. [00:47:58] Speaker C: Good luck. We love you. [00:48:01] Speaker A: Look at that. Live on the pod A live Simon about to do his demo. He looked a little bit nervous. [00:48:07] Speaker C: How Bloody well, you know, like apt for the episode that he's like, oh, it's all going to be about mindset and how I cope with nerves. And we've been talking about how to do that with your horse. [00:48:18] Speaker A: Mindset and nerves. But we have lost our guests, so. [00:48:21] Speaker C: We have lost our guest. Honestly, I'm very well, I'm good. Oh, I've got some very. I've got a very adult week. Very adult week. [00:48:29] Speaker A: Oh, no one wants to do adulting. [00:48:31] Speaker C: We've got the riding school inspection on Friday, which, for anybody who doesn't know in the uk, it's not simple. If you want to teach people to ride, you can't just decide to do it. You have to have the local council have to come down and they inspect all the tack and every single horse is inspected by a vet and the facility is inspected, which is, I agree, a good thing for the welfare and quality of people that teach. But my goodness, I didn't want to spend this week cleaning tack and deep cleaning the yard. I wanted to work horses. But that's what. That's what we're doing this week. How are you doing? [00:49:08] Speaker A: I'm all right. I'm commentating this afternoon, so I have to do a bit of research on some three star horses. I'm right. I went to Yellowstone. [00:49:18] Speaker C: I'm very jealous. [00:49:20] Speaker A: I know, it was so cool. Yellowstone and Grand Teton and I had a bison right next to my car. [00:49:26] Speaker C: Fuck my life. [00:49:27] Speaker A: It was the biggest thing I've ever seen in my life. Like, that is some prehistoric animal right there. [00:49:34] Speaker C: Did you see that man, the old man get, like, nearly killed by a bison, like a couple of weeks ago. [00:49:41] Speaker A: A tree. Someone sent it to me before we left. So I. I had nothing but the utmost respect for this animal. Like, I have respect for all animals, but that thing just commanded. It just walked down the road like the boss. And then it just walked in the middle of the road, blocked all the traffic coming in and out of Yellowstone. Zero fucks given. I was like, yeah, that, that's the man right there. That is like the don. And I saw a moose. I made my family get up at 5 o' clock in the morning to go into Grand Teton on a moose hunt. And I knew moose meese. I knew moose, the plural of moose meese. No, I know it's not. I. Yes, this moose. Do you know how big moose are? [00:50:22] Speaker C: They're like 20 hands, aren't they? [00:50:25] Speaker A: It was seven foot at the shoulder. [00:50:27] Speaker C: Fuck off. [00:50:28] Speaker A: And then it had a head and then it had the biggest antlers I've ever seen. And we stayed very far from this animal, like a long way. [00:50:37] Speaker C: Stay distant from that. [00:50:39] Speaker A: It was insane. It just gave me a new whole found respect for just nature and, yeah, it's beautiful. And we had a great time, drank far too much wine and saw some very good friends and. Yes. And saw just so many cool animals. I'm in love with the animal. Have you ever heard of a pika? [00:50:55] Speaker C: No. [00:50:56] Speaker A: And they're like little, almost like ground squirrels with big ears. And they make like. You can tell when they're about because they make the most awesome sound. It's just like. [00:51:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:09] Speaker C: Oh, they've got much better wildlife on your side of the pond. [00:51:13] Speaker A: Freddy is trying to get back in. [00:51:14] Speaker C: Are you back? [00:51:15] Speaker D: Are we back? [00:51:16] Speaker C: Are we back? [00:51:18] Speaker D: I didn't want to see Simon anyway. Clearly, yes. [00:51:23] Speaker A: He's overrated. Right. Freddie Steele, did you remember your question? [00:51:27] Speaker D: Ben? I'm really sorry, guys. Give me a horse to train for technology. [00:51:33] Speaker C: I've got a question I want to ask you because I've seen this pop its head up on articles on horse and hound and British dressage and the such on socials in the past couple of weeks, because we've been talking a lot about how to help horses at competition and stuff. And Jenny, it's funny you say talking about these larger amounts of atmospheric dressage competitions and how that could be the way we're going, and I'm worried that what I'm about to say correlates with that idea of a bigger atmosphere. Why are they pushing to make earplugs for horses, like a competition thing for dressage? And Freddie, I don't know if you've seen that, but what are your views on that? Because I'm pretty sure they're pushing for earplugs. They're pushing for earplugs, legal earplugs, to be legal in competition. [00:52:29] Speaker D: They've just stopped us in working EK having ear sound defenders on, let alone earplugs in, as if they're doing that. That seems absolutely crazy. Like we're trying to make welfare better, but yet it just seems counterproductive. It just seems bizarre, like, to me, anyway, why would we make a horse put in a more upset situation and then just try and upset it a bit less by deafening it and taking away one of its primary senses? Like, huh. [00:53:03] Speaker A: Is it a bit like sticking like a plaster over a cut that needs stitches? Do you know? [00:53:08] Speaker C: No, I think it's worse than that. It's worse than that. It's Going, could train this thing to be all right with loud noises. Ah, fuck it. [00:53:22] Speaker D: Is it for the public? Is it to defend the riders and protect them, maybe so the horses don't overreact and then people have to spur them more and pull them more or, like, is it? Yeah, but that's. [00:53:34] Speaker C: If I don't know where it's coming from. For me, that's just such a. I'm just like, no. If anything, it goes against the other side of it of like. If anything, I'd be hoping that vocal commands would be made allowed in dressage. That's where I'd hope we were going. [00:53:54] Speaker D: I think they are now, but only subtly. Am I right? Yeah. [00:53:59] Speaker B: If you can [00:54:02] Speaker A: in British dressage, but not in a venting dressage. Can't use it that. But they've got to be very subtle as well. I don't. It's not like you can go canter, [00:54:14] Speaker C: stand up, your pick. [00:54:16] Speaker D: I'm smiling at the judge for years going, I've been practicing that one for ages. [00:54:24] Speaker A: I just think if that makes no [00:54:26] Speaker D: sense to me at all, I'm absolutely lost as you are. Like, it makes no logical sense as to why. [00:54:33] Speaker A: And, like, don't get me. [00:54:34] Speaker C: Don't get me wrong, I could say something that is a bit controversial here. I own horse earplugs and have used them. [00:54:43] Speaker D: I have. [00:54:44] Speaker C: But I have used them in scenarios where we have ear protection, so the horses should have ear protection. So if I'm working on a film and there's going to be pyrotechnics or there's going to be guns, then a bit of ear protection then makes more sense to me there, you know, that's to defend the horse from a loud noise. [00:55:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:05] Speaker D: So depending if it's going to be used. [00:55:08] Speaker C: Yeah. If it's a protective measure, then I can make sense of that. But if it's because it's easier than training one, then I just think it's. [00:55:17] Speaker D: I did buy some to. Potentially, I bought some to have in my. Have in my back pocket of hoys because I didn't know how loud the bikes would be inside. I didn't know, you know, I didn't know any of that. And then I got there and I was like, oh, it's all right, listen. [00:55:30] Speaker C: Yeah, it's so funny. [00:55:32] Speaker D: And they've all stayed in the. [00:55:35] Speaker C: When you did hoi's, I I all the time, I was like, is he gonna use normal bikes or electric bikes? Is he gonna go electric to not have the sound? But I have to Say, I think it works nicer with the sound of the bikes. [00:55:52] Speaker D: The sound works, you know, very loud [00:55:55] Speaker C: and your horses are not. They're not bothered in the slightest. But say, Jenny, we're already being controversial. What's your controversialness? Come on. [00:56:07] Speaker A: Well, no, it's more. Because I feel like we've spoken about this quite a lot on the podcast, and I feel like it would be remiss of me to not ask Freddie about it because it's something he does and it's something that I don't like. Well, no, not that I don't like. It's something I need to learn more about. But you. You teach people to fall off, whereas I spend my life teaching well to stay the fuck on a little bit. [00:56:32] Speaker D: I don't do that much. I just. Yeah, I don't do that much, but, yeah, I do a bit. [00:56:37] Speaker A: Yeah. So what I. Because I've never done it. I've never. I did some filming about it once, and I spend my life trying to teach people not to fall off. So when is the scenario that you're teaching? Like, how did it come about? I want to know more about it because I'm happy to be converted and to learn. [00:56:56] Speaker D: Right. The job's always to stay on. The job's always to stay on. So what you're teaching is essentially what I teach every rider. I teach as well, you know, stay on the horse, do not fall off the horse if they're losing their balance. I'm like, grab on, grab the main, do this, get on the horse, do not fall off. But sometimes you can't. Sometimes you can't. Like the small. You just. You're stuffed at that point. And it's. At that point, just try. It's a. It's essentially, it's teaching the brain. So I first learned this at the center of horseback combat. They do a great course, a really, really cool confidence course where they teach people to sit on rearing horses. They teach people to fall off. They do almost like deeper mindset stuff around confidence with horses. So they taught me what they teach, and then over my experience, I've kind of used a lot of it, but then turned changed a few little bits around to what suits me. And then what I've experienced in kind of the falls I've done and the films and stuff. And then I only really teach kids and Pony Club. Occasionally I'll do like an adult camp, but I only really do pony Club because I go, right. I'm not a psychologist, you know, I know a little bit to Help a bit. But I can teach a technique in a fun way that people remember that might help them one day. I'm not going to say. It's definitely. I'm not going to say. [00:58:24] Speaker A: I'm. [00:58:24] Speaker D: I've got a qualification for it. I'm not going to say. But what I can teach can help someone and save. Save your bacon and broken bones and stuff. You know, it can be super, super helpful information. So if anyone's got any comfort, I'd be like, go there. Like, I'm not. I'm not the one for that. Like, they do a great job. I'm not the one for that. But teaching people what to do. Because when I was first taught to fall off, it was like, right, you're going to be riding back in problem horses. Jump off now and roll. Jump off and roll. Jump off and roll. Jump off and roll. With no technique, just roll. All right. And it always worked out all right. I was fairly athletic at school and I kind of guess got lucky. And every time I jumped off and roll, I kind of learned how to roll because I learned young enough. But of course, nowadays, weird, the way riding schools are going, they're not allowed to do around the world. They're not allowed to do stupid things that we used to do, you know, riding down. [00:59:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:17] Speaker D: They're not allowed to do around the world's insurance and all of that. [00:59:20] Speaker B: What? [00:59:21] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:59:22] Speaker A: Oh, that breaks my. My heart just literally died inside my test. [00:59:26] Speaker D: So the kids are all coming out little weasels, honestly. They're all coming out petrified to do anything, I swear down. So I need to go, right, you're all scared. At the age that we're all galloping on the rugs, jumping over the little ditches in the side of the road. And so I kind of go, right, if. If you're gonna be more scared, you need a bit more kind of education, so to speak, and techniques on what to do if. Because if you are scared, you're gonna likely fall off more, whereas if you're more purposeful, you're likely to fall off less. So the falling thing is essentially a bit of. A bit of knowledge, a bit of something to have in your back pocket should hit the fan and you need it. If you can't stay on, that's the most important bit. If you can't stay on and you see the ground coming quick and you got a split second to react and you don't want to hit your head, you kind of. You know, they teach it in judo. They teach it in Skydiving. They teach it in probably mountain biking. You know, they teach it in these things where you're likely to have a full rock climbing. So why don't we teach it in another thing that we're gonna. We're likely to have a fall and one time a year, national equine show. I'll get all the influencers on doing it and yeah, if we can get some. Get some people some knowledge. And the amount of people that have messaged me after seeing these influencers fall off, messing around, doing it with the worst technique, not listening to a word because they're trying to make it funny or just like, you know, Hannah. Hannah Sims, one of them silly prune. The amount of people that have messaged me going, oh, that really helped just from watching. And I'll go, why? Why wouldn't I do those Couple of things. Couple of things a year. And that's where it's all kind of. That's why I've kind of kept doing it, having. Having learned it. Because, you know, we fall off in the, in the films occasionally and, and do our stuff in the jazz. Someone always falls off. We do it. So we've got to get up the next day and go and earn some more money. We can't be off sick. We've got horses to look after. So if we can do that without hat, body protector, safety things and generally be okay. Okay goes wrong, but generally be okay. If we now add your Charles Owen hat, your air jacket, your safety stirrups, your body protector, your every single bit of a safety equipment that's got better and better over the years. [01:01:40] Speaker A: Your Charles Owen body protector. Yep. [01:01:43] Speaker D: Yeah. Charles Owen body protector too. If we can add those two things together, the education, the safety, we're almost doubling the. Doubling the chances of the saving in light lack of injuries and saving injuries. [01:01:55] Speaker C: Yeah. And that's like from this from. From being around it a lot as well. I would say the falling techniques that people teach it, it's not perfect. It's not perfect science on how not to get hurt. But whenever I've seen people get smashed up falling off horses on purpose on films or in stunt shows, generally you break a wrist or an ankle, you don't break your head or your back or your do, you know, like. So it's not even about. It's like even falling technique done badly is more likely to give you an injury that might hurt, but you'll be all right. And I think that's a realism in it as well. Like if. Because if you fall off and you land on your head, that could be a life changing or life ending injury. But if you're even attempting to do the correct technique and you break your wrist, all right, you're six weeks in a pot, but you'll get over it. [01:02:56] Speaker A: Yeah, see, I feel better now I've spoken to you about it because I actually think from someone who is old and who has kids, I'm get fucking [01:03:06] Speaker C: you do have kids. [01:03:07] Speaker A: After my big hike, I can barely move my back. But I feel better having spoken to you about it because I totally see it now. But at the same time I think that some of the influencers putting it out there, it's your words make more sense now from the bits that I've seen. But then I'm not someone who's on fucking social media 24 7. But the way it's come across to me is this looks like this is what you should do and learning to fall off and you're seeing clips of it where it's not done very well. So for me with, as a parent, because I'm sorry, but most of the influencers who I've seen doing it don't have kids, so probably don't see it from the same point of view. So from my point of view, it's watching little clippets of it where they're not actually learning it. But we know what people are like, they copy that's online and the, the, the message try and stay on, don't fall off doesn't come across. So now I've heard you speak about it, I'm like, that makes total sense. [01:04:03] Speaker D: Then what are you doing next month? [01:04:04] Speaker A: Like, what am I doing next March involves being cow. Yes. With all the money I have. Freddie. Yes. [01:04:14] Speaker D: National Equine Show. [01:04:15] Speaker A: Come to national. [01:04:16] Speaker D: Come to National Equine Show. [01:04:20] Speaker A: But I like the fact that you're teaching that message of stay on. But also I like teaching. When back in my day when I was teaching, I would take the stirrups away and almost make them hang out the side off these ponies and get back in the saddle, like, do you know what I mean? Like try and fall off and try [01:04:35] Speaker D: and put yourself back on. A classical dressage instructor as a kid and she made me ride in a saddle without a girth a lot of the time and with time, obviously, if they're not allowed to do around the world now, then that's not possible, but would literally take my girth off and like sit straight on that saddle and don't let the saddle fall off because it's a lot of money, you know, so those kind of. Those kind of things. Absolutely instilled in. And I think they need to be instilled into the, you know, the horse community even more. Do whatever it takes to stay on. Whatever it takes to stay on. [01:05:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:09] Speaker D: You know, you see it, don't you, in the professional world? A lot more people grabbing on, staying on. Oh, he's here. [01:05:17] Speaker A: Hey, we have a baby. We have a baby on the pod. What is he eating, Benjamin? [01:05:22] Speaker C: He's eating a knight. [01:05:26] Speaker A: Oh, good night. Not a knife, ladies and gentlemen. [01:05:31] Speaker C: He's the Black Knight and he has brought his Bowing Andalusian because we have educational toys in our house. [01:05:41] Speaker A: Oh, wild comedy Jenny. I'm going to take Avalon now. [01:05:47] Speaker C: Well, we can't do words that well yet. We can say Bobby and he can say Momo, which is Mojo. But we're learning. We're learning words. [01:05:56] Speaker A: One to walk, two to talk, isn't it? That's what you've got to do. Wild. Can you say Freddie? [01:06:03] Speaker C: You say Freddie. Wild. [01:06:05] Speaker A: If he says Freddie before Jenny, I'm going to be pretty pissed. [01:06:08] Speaker C: By the way, struggling with J's. He can't say Granny Jill, so that's going down. Can you say Freddy? George? Try again. Wild. [01:06:18] Speaker A: Wild. [01:06:20] Speaker C: No, he's too fascinating. [01:06:22] Speaker D: Camera Joy. [01:06:23] Speaker A: He's too looking at the screen. [01:06:27] Speaker C: I love you. [01:06:28] Speaker D: I like that you're training him with the horses and the knights, though, at young age. It's clear what Ben wants his job to be in the poop. [01:06:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, yeah. This child doesn't have an option. Night, George. Hi. [01:06:44] Speaker C: Good night, baby. Smish. I love you. Yeah. What's actually quite funny is all the knights and horses came out because we moved into the house that I grew up in and the cupboard under the stairs still had all of my toys from being a kid. So George went to clear out the cupboard under the stairs so we could put stuff in it. Wild. Found the box full of all the toys of horses and knights and just loved them. So they've been brought back into. That's cool. Brought back into work. So he's playing with. Yeah. So these are toys and some of them, we looked them up, like the knights and the horses. A lot of them were made in 1993 and 1994. The toys that my. So, yeah, he's now growing up with the toys that I grew up with. [01:07:33] Speaker A: Benjamin. 1993 is not a long time ago. [01:07:36] Speaker C: That's when I was born. [01:07:38] Speaker A: All right, piss off. I was 13. All right, you little bugger. [01:07:41] Speaker D: You were 13. [01:07:43] Speaker A: Yeah. In 1993 I turned 13. Stop laughing. Freddie. How old are you? [01:07:48] Speaker D: 30, 96. [01:07:52] Speaker C: I thought you were older than me. I always forget that you're younger. [01:07:56] Speaker A: I hate sports. [01:07:57] Speaker C: We act like children when we're together. [01:08:01] Speaker A: Right. Well, now I have put my Freddie trying to make people fall off horses to bed and I hope you don't mind. I feel like this podcast is about being controversial. [01:08:09] Speaker D: 100%. 100% it has been controversial and it's thing because it, you know, it airs stuff out and everyone can get like you say, if you're thinking that from one thing, 200 other people, if not more, are thinking exactly the same thing, you know, so. [01:08:24] Speaker A: And I feel a lot happier now. I will sleep better. [01:08:27] Speaker D: I'd be a lot happier if you came and did a fallen off demo live at the national Equine show. I think that would be. [01:08:36] Speaker A: It's fine. I will do it with. [01:08:39] Speaker D: You could do it with Simon as well to hold your hand a little bit if you wanted to. We could organize. [01:08:43] Speaker A: Only if I'm allowed. Ben and Simon and I can push them off. [01:08:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:46] Speaker C: And you can drink. Oh, that's fine. [01:08:52] Speaker A: This is what we're promoting now. Drinking on the back of horses and how to pull off when drunk. [01:08:58] Speaker C: It's a wooden horse. That's fine. [01:09:01] Speaker D: There's a big old crash. [01:09:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:09:05] Speaker A: Oh, good. Yeah. It's all sounding more and more appealing. [01:09:08] Speaker C: Right, Right. [01:09:10] Speaker A: Freddie and Ben, we've gone over an hour which I promised wouldn't happen. But I need to know what has annoyed you this week. Freddie, I'm not sure how much you listen to the podcast, but every week it doesn't have to be horse related. Ben normally rants about cyclists, which has ended up in the press officer from Spruce Meadows sending me a video about cyclists which was absolutely hilarious. So I'm very. I love that. Yeah. [01:09:36] Speaker C: In a world full of positivity and manifestation, we're fighting against that with our. What's annoyed you this week? [01:09:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Get it out. I feel like it's good for you just to let it out. [01:09:49] Speaker D: The one coming to my brain straight away. It's a bit boring, though. It is a bit boring. But it's Brexit. It's just still annoying me. It's really annoying me. I'll tell you why. It's because my mayors have been in to the vets this week and being Lusitanos and wanting to breed the best. I'm having to import the best semen from Portugal. The paperwork and the cost to bring horse Semen over the border is stupid. [01:10:20] Speaker A: Stupid. [01:10:21] Speaker D: I should have gone in my car, right? Picked it up, put it in a cool box, drove over and then brought it to the vets. But instead, I spend over a thousand pounds, mostly on paperwork to get it through customs, to get VAT paid, to get tax paid, just to transport the thing here on top of, you know, fetch fees. The rest of it. The rest of it. But it's that Brexit side. It's that unnecessary 1200 pounds in paperwork when I should have probably driven, but I wanted to be a good citizen for a change and, you know, do it all by the rules and this and that. What I probably should have done is driven in my car, gone and got it and come back again. So, yeah, it's a bit of a boring one. It's a bit political, but it's really, really annoyed me. [01:11:08] Speaker A: It's all right. Mine's Trump. [01:11:12] Speaker C: We've become a political podcast. [01:11:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So I just have got back from Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks, and the USA now has introduced, if you go into one of the national parks, you have to pay an international visitor's fee. So it used to be like 70 bucks for the week's car pass or 35 or whatever, which I don't mind paying because I believe these national parks need to be maintained and everything. But now he's added on a hundred dollars per person in the car for just being international visitor and which makes it so much more expensive. And if it was like, oh, this is going to be because we need to look after the wildlife or pay the park rangers or do all of this, but it's not. And I even was walking around Yellowstone and some Americans from New York came up to me and they were like, can we just ask, did you have to pay that international fee? And I was like, yeah, well, hopefully the money's going to go somewhere good. Like, well, it is amazing what we get to see, but I just don't get it. And they were like, on behalf of America, can we apologize? I was like, thank you very much. [01:12:24] Speaker D: That's amazing. [01:12:27] Speaker A: But in a very similar Brexit, but Trump's trying to bring down the national parks and start mining them and doing all these things to them, but yet to go and see these amazing things, you now got to pay a hundred dollars more per person in the car, including the kids? No, the kids under 16 is free. Thank God. We wouldn't have been able to afford it. [01:12:45] Speaker C: Yeah, because that's like a $500 entry fee. [01:12:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we Just wouldn't have been able to afford it even. I know. And it's just like, if you think like. Yeah, but living in Canada is hilarious because Carney, our guy, it's just like, come to the Canadian parks, they are not expensive. All right. Anyway, so that's annoyed me. Paying loads more money with absolutely no reason behind it, apart from just someone being an asshole. [01:13:15] Speaker C: Jenny, don't say that. Paying loads of money for no reason because someone's an asshole. Me and Freddie still pay taxes in the uk. Fucking hell. [01:13:29] Speaker A: So what's annoyed you this week, Ben? [01:13:31] Speaker C: Mine's really boring. I was trying to think of something political but then I was like, oh, Ben, don't get yourself cancelled on. Shut up and ride. You've done well so far. Mine's really dull. I've said I'm doing the riding school inspection. That annoys me anyway, because we're not even a bloody riding school anymore. We. It's because we put actors on horses and according to the council, that's teaching that. But anyway, and so in a month doing this, hope we've got the same person who we normally get, which is like, pretty chill. Which is nice. Like, shout out East Rhyden of Yorkshire Council. Come on, be good on Friday. But we had to replace some post and railing around the arena because my boys had like sat on it and chewed it and stuff. And I went to get the trailer to go to the hardware store to get the post and rails and I left the trailer full of kit and props from the last show and it was so disappointing because what was meant to be a five minute job turned into an absolute fuck about. And like, yeah, that's what annoyed me this week. Nowhere near as exciting as both of you. I should have gone first. But, yeah, that's what annoyed me. Not annoyed at cyclists as I said last time. Now cyclists kind of amuse me when I see them. I'm like, everybody hates me because I hate you. [01:14:53] Speaker D: But, yeah, did you get some grief for that? [01:14:57] Speaker A: I love how much there's so much grief. [01:15:01] Speaker C: Jenny and Simon have never had a complaint written in about them and I have had multiple complaints about me and my views on the world and life. [01:15:12] Speaker A: Just because you get stuck behind Chad and his Tour de Midlife crisis. [01:15:15] Speaker C: Yeah, Tour the Midlife crisis. [01:15:18] Speaker A: I've had many complaints about just being genuinely loud and annoying. Oh, she's so loud and annoying. [01:15:24] Speaker C: No, we meant in the podcast, not life. [01:15:26] Speaker A: Oh, yes, right. Freddie Steele, it has been wonderful having you on. Oh, wait, what now? [01:15:36] Speaker C: Wait, wait two seconds, wait. [01:15:39] Speaker D: Have you got a theme tune for the podcast? [01:15:43] Speaker A: Yeah. It sounds like porn. [01:15:45] Speaker C: Shut up and ride, ride, ride, ride. Oh, Jack, you've made me feel all weird about our theme tune by saying that. Yeah, it's normally me singing. [01:15:54] Speaker D: I've heard the song and it's made me think of that one or the other. [01:15:58] Speaker C: If you. If you think Freddy is awesome and want to see Freddy and his horses in action and you'd also like to see me at the same time, then get yourself to bury Farm on September 25th, the 26th and the 27th, because Freddie and I will both be appearing at Horsemanship Showcase. There's going to be live education and demos as well as a shopping village throughout the day. And of course, our. Now I'm going to say our famous Saturday night Equine Theatre spectacular that we will all be part of. So visit Horsemanship Hub and get your tickets booked and come and visit us. Visit us at the Horsemanship Showcase. [01:16:43] Speaker D: The daytime will be educational and the nighttime will be a weird and wonderful creative side. The full shebang. But I'm not going to tell you the themes yet. [01:16:55] Speaker A: Oh, exciting. This was when Ben's Umbrella, where he basically did a striptease with Malik, one of my favorite. [01:17:03] Speaker D: It all comes out of this show. You don't know what's coming out until the night, but it all. Yeah, it all happens. [01:17:10] Speaker C: I put forward an act of me being in drag this year, but it got vetoed. [01:17:14] Speaker A: What would be your drag name? [01:17:15] Speaker D: Yeah, I put forward something. It's like, no, it's too close to when Ben did his last one. We need to give it some time. [01:17:23] Speaker C: My drag name. I don't know what my drag name would be. [01:17:28] Speaker A: Like Titty Le Camp or something. [01:17:30] Speaker C: Oh, something. Something Filthy. George. I'm not saying that on a podcast. That's filth. [01:17:42] Speaker A: I just heard the word Minj in the background. [01:17:45] Speaker C: Yeah, she said Bendy Minj. Apparently, that's my drag name from the wife. [01:17:50] Speaker A: Wow. What's yours, Freddie? It's gotta be like Steel the Stallion or something. [01:17:55] Speaker C: Oh, right. Why do I get Bendy Minj and he gets. How come he gets Steel the Stallion and I'm Bendy Minj. [01:18:04] Speaker A: And on that note, boys, I think all that is left to say on this podcast is Freddie Steele, thank you very much for coming on. And quite frankly, Steele the Stallion, you can go. Shut up and ride. [01:18:15] Speaker C: Shut up and ride. Ride, ride, ride. Shut up and ride, ride, ride, ride, ride. [01:18:24] Speaker A: Wow.