Ben Asselin: What Makes a True Horseman?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Simon, have you heard of British Eventing's new initiative Be Prepared? [00:00:04] Speaker B: Yes Jenny, I have. It's a free program from British Eventing designed to help riders learn, connect and grow in the sport. [00:00:11] Speaker A: So whether you're a member or not, Be Prepared supports grassroots riders with the knowledge, skills and confidence to enjoy eventing at every stage. As a former competitor myself, I know how valuable good preparation can be. [00:00:26] Speaker B: Through the free learning hub you can access bite sized videos, expert advice and practical checklists when, whenever it suits you. [00:00:33] Speaker A: Plus there will be some in person camps bringing learning to life with coaching workshops and Q and A sessions from industry professionals. [00:00:42] Speaker B: From preparation and planning to mindset fitness and competition, know how it's all about practical learning that works because as we [00:00:50] Speaker A: know Simon, being prepared and preparation really [00:00:53] Speaker B: does build confidence and confident riders make better decisions. [00:00:56] Speaker A: So get Be Prepared today with British Eventing and head over to their website britisheventing.com. Stop singing Benjamin. Welcome to the Shut Up Ride podcast sponsored by the wonderful Charles Owen. Now I need to ask a favor audience because I've been listening to other podcasts and apparently this is what they do. Please follow like and share us that little subscribe button. More people who follow, the more amazing guests we can get on like our wonderful guests today. Benjamin, we have a guest and you are just as excited as I am, aren't you? Today? [00:01:36] Speaker C: Yeah, this seems, this is like a, this is going to be quite a different episode as well, which I really like. I don't think we've ever talked about anything quite like this before which is. Yeah, it's going to be exciting. [00:01:48] Speaker A: Right. There's so much to introduce you by guest. First of all, very easy name to remember. You are part of the world renowned, one of, can I just say, my favorite venues in the world. It was a bucket list for me to go and work at this venue and I managed to do it last year at the 50th anniversary with the biggest prize pot I've ever seen in the sport. You are also co producer of one of the most exciting documentaries to be in our equestrian space at the moment from Spruce Meadows live from Calgary as we speak. Ben Aslin, thank you. And you're a rider yourself. My goodness. And you've competed on Nations Cup. Just extraordinary overall horseman as well as all these other accolades. Ben Aslan, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I am very, very excited to have you on to chat everything that is going on in your life at the moment. [00:02:46] Speaker D: Well, thank you very much for having us. Jenny and Ben really Really pleasure to be on the podcast today and looking forward to chatting with you guys. [00:02:56] Speaker A: First of all, Spruce Meadows, Ben. Spruce Meadows. Now, a lot of our listeners just love their horses, maybe don't follow the sport as, as avidly as I do. I knew about Spruce Meadows, but I've worked with some of the best riders in the world. I've been really lucky. I've gone all over the world. And it was only really when I was working with Ludo Philip Arts and the Philippa Arts boys, Nicola, did I really realize how important a competition is for them. And we're talking, I mean, that's over in Europe. I went to their massive grass field, Ben, and they had built 90% of the fences in their grass field that you have at Spruce Meadows. Before we get into faultless and everything else, can you first of all, just put into words Spruce Meadows and a little bit about yourself and your history? Because this venue, ladies and gentlemen, is absolutely iconic. It's full of history, it's full of heritage, but it is also the one the riders want to win. And I think I can safely say that for pretty much 100% of all riders. Ben's smirking because he knows it's true. [00:04:04] Speaker D: Yeah, I do. As a rider myself, I think that is true. And it definitely is a venue that all of us athletes really try to put on our calendar as one of the main goals throughout the year. It's, I'm extremely blessed and honored to be a part of the, of the family and extremely proud of what my grandfather and my grandmother, you know, created. And it's, it's an extraordinary story of how it was created in the first place. And to see it today is just really, it's unbelievable. I mean, it really started as humble beginnings and it was two partners, you know, inspiration and passion to create international sport in a very unlikely place and an unlikely sport for Calgary, Alberta. So it's incredible. It's now part of the Rolex Grand Islam, one of four majors throughout the year. And as you said, the jumps are unique, the atmosphere is unique, but it really does showcase top level competition. When you ride into the international ring under the clock tower at Spruce Meadows, I can say firsthand, it's, it's a feeling that you don't feel anywhere else. I mean, it's, it's comparable to an Aachen, a real Mecca. So it's, it's got its unique traits. You know, the 16 foot long poles is much different than the rest of the sport. And there's been fences that have been jumped for 50 years of international competition. That as you were mentioning, you know, even the Philip Arts have, have some of the fences built in their own farm. [00:05:41] Speaker A: And the bicycle fence, which is terrifying. Please go Google the bicycle fence. I will put a picture on Instagram. Guys, it is terrifying. Especially last year when you put it on like at half distance, it's like, how the hell do you jump that? You're laughing because you know it's true. Like, I have no idea how you jump that fence. [00:06:00] Speaker D: No. And, and you know, the really cool thing is that my grandfather, Ron Southern and my grandmother, Marg Southern, they set out on a mission when they were starting to get involved in the international side of the sport. To, to take home a couple jumps from every World Championships, Olympic Games, every, you know, major championship. So we, there's fences from all over the world. The bicycle jump that you're referring to came from Den Haag World Championships. [00:06:30] Speaker A: I didn't know that. That's so cool. [00:06:33] Speaker D: And so, yeah, they all have a story behind them and they're all quite difficult to jump and they require a lot of bravery from both horse and rider. And, and Leopoldo Palacios has been a real staple at our venue at Spruce Meadows for many years and in my opinion, one of the best course designers ever. I mean, for sure one of the toughest. For sure one of the toughest. There's no doubt about it. But at the end of the day, he, he really, he has a blank canvas to start and he really paints just the top level of sport every year in that Grand Prix. You always see the best horse rider combination win the Grand Prix on Sunday. [00:07:14] Speaker A: Leopoldo always pretends his English is non existence though. If you ask for an interview, can I just say, he's like, no, no, I'm like, I know you can speak English. And he runs in the other direction, feigning that his English is non existent, which makes me laugh every single. I've been doing this for a long time. Leopoldo. I know you, I've seen you speaking to the riders. [00:07:33] Speaker D: Yeah, no, he's, he's a, he's an incredible character. He's a genuine human being. He's a, he's a horseman, he's a, he's a, a people person. You know, he cares about the riders, he cares about the horses. And we're so lucky to have that, that relationship with Leo for so many years. [00:07:50] Speaker A: So very excitingly. Simon Greave has just managed to join us. Ben, can I, live on the podcast, introduce you to five star eventer and Absolute legend. Simon Greave as well. Simon, you're here. [00:08:02] Speaker B: Hi, Ben. How you doing? [00:08:03] Speaker D: Simi. Pleasure to meet you. Thanks very much for having us. [00:08:06] Speaker B: Well, nice to meet you too. I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm so late. [00:08:11] Speaker D: No problem. [00:08:12] Speaker A: We're just talking about how amazing Spruce Meadows is. I think they need to have an Aventus Grand Prix in there. Have you ever done that? Ben? Have you ever had an Aventus Grand Prix at Spruce Meadows? [00:08:21] Speaker D: We haven't, but I mean in today's day and age of the sport, it almost feels like we're somewhat eventing because we do really have a passion and a heritage for keeping the natural obstacles alive in our arena. And I know that the eventing is pretty intense and you guys are jumping some pretty wild fences on a daily basis. But we're super proud to still have that legacy and that heritage of where the roots of the sport came from. Will always be a grass arena and the natural obstacles will always be a part of Spruce Meadows. [00:09:00] Speaker A: You do get some of the riders though, getting a bit. I remember walking the course last year. Leopolda's course last year was absolutely incredible. The upright in the middle of the water jump. I've never seen so many riders standing and scratching their heads. It was proper vintage show jumping. But the undulations get them as well. There's little bits through the trees. Oh, guys, I so want you to go to Spruce Meadows. I cannot tell you how cool it is. It is just like. But I love it. Watching the riders walk your courses. It's just one of my favorite things. [00:09:33] Speaker D: Yeah, it's. It's an intense morning. I mean this. The CPKC presented by Rolex or our 5 million dollar grand Prix on the Sunday, is it. I just, I love it. Like, I mean as a competitor, I've jumped the Grand Prix maybe three times in my life. It's definitely the toughest competition I've ever jumped. I've never come out of there with less than 12 faults in the first round. But it, yeah, it's an intense moment. You can feel the nerves and the buzz in the morning and yeah, there's some controversy. You know, it's unlike anywhere else, especially with those 16 foot poles and the variety of jumps that we have. It creates a real challenge. And there's definitely some doubts in the morning when you walk the course for the first time. And Jenny, as you mention, know the, the 50th anniversary last year, it was the first time that the. The International Grand Prix was $5 million and it needed to be a proper Grand Prix. It needed to represent what it was. And I believe that, you know, Leopoldo did an amazing job. That would not be an easy task to take on, you know, housing all of the best riders and the best horses in the world. Trying to create a competition that's, you know, on parallel with the prize money that's being offered and the stage that it's set on, but while also trying to protect, you know, the horse's welfare and the riders and everything. It's. It's a real. It's a real challenge. And there was a lot of uprising, you know, in, in the morning when we, when they first started walking the course. Like, what is this? This is maybe too much. But at the end of the day, if you look through the results or re watch, the Grand Prix, horses were always safe. You know, there was mistakes made for sure, but there was nothing that created too much of a challenge for, for the horses. I mean, the last line in the second round was extremely hard to jump, but there was no crash, there was no horses getting hurt or anything like that. So I think he did an incredible job. [00:11:37] Speaker A: It is, and it is. It's one of my favorite things because the last line in the second round was on a half stride through. It was a double, wasn't it? And then a half stride onto the bicycle jump, and everyone was just going, the only horse that can jump this isn't in it. And it's United Touch. And it wasn't anyone saying the only rider that could jump this. It was just every. Every single rider walking round was so respectful of the horse that could do that line. And it. And both Scott and Karl King had Scott Brash, who made it through to the jump off. I mean, even they had that rail down as well, for sure. But it was just so wonderful that all these riders were like, United Touch could do that. Like, the respect they had for this horse. And that's what I love. They're all going, your horse can do it. Your horse can do it. I love it. The respect for the horses is paramount, though. [00:12:22] Speaker C: It's interesting. Yeah. [00:12:24] Speaker D: I mean, I think that, you know, it was a real shame for Martin Fuchs, too. I mean, he was a live contender for the Rolex Grand Slam last year and he was really on top form. He had just come off a win in Akin and Leonie J, you know, jumped that first round. Just incredible. And the disaster that happened to them at number one is, you know, I think nine times out of 10, that would never happen to them. But just something caught them off guard and took off a stride early to the first fence and it was, it was a disaster. And the whole thing ended just like that. But I do believe Nightmare, I do believe that that horse was, was capable of jumping as well as Martin to jump another, you know, double clear round there as well. But that's how the sport unfolds and that's the beauty of it. [00:13:08] Speaker A: Don't give too much away. This is what happens at the end of your series. Faultless. [00:13:13] Speaker D: It is. Yeah. Yeah, it is. So yeah, we were able to forgive [00:13:17] Speaker B: my total ignorance and stupidity, but it's. So is Spruce Meadows basically. What would be the equivalent of to over here? Will it be the equivalent to Hickstead but just Arkan. [00:13:29] Speaker D: It's a good, it's a good question because I think it's a, it's a culmination of a lot of the European venues. You know, it was 50 years ago in Calgary, Alberta. There was really, there wasn't that many international tournaments and now we have, you know, Thunderbird in Langley, bc, which is one of the top North American competition venues in North America as well. And we have Spruce Meadows. But it really was a culmination of a lot of European events. My grandfather traveled all across Europe and got a lot of ideas. He was good friends with Douglas Bun back in the day and took a lot of inspiration from Hickstadt arena and, and Aachen was obviously, you know, the mecca of the sport and still is today. And so we wanted to try to create that sort of feeling of atmosphere and international sport like at the very highest level. And so I would say there's, there's lots of ideas brought from a numerous amount of competitions throughout Europe and North America. [00:14:33] Speaker A: It. Honestly Simon, it's, it's got that ark and kind of, it's so. I mean I am so spoiled. I have been to all these venues. It's got the ark and vibe of the atmosphere that you get with Ark and you know, when, when you go into that ark and ring, there's something. [00:14:49] Speaker B: Well, because that's, that's what people always say about Arken is that the, I mean I've never been. But the, the atmosphere is incredible and it's like it's the greatest show, greatest equestrian show on earth. Like it's absolutely phenomenal. And they obviously, I don't know how they created that vibe but it's also [00:15:07] Speaker A: then got Hickstead's heritage. Like Hickstead just has this old school feel about it that you just love. You feel like you're being taken Back to the past again. I've spent so much time, I dated Douglas Bunn's son for a while. Ben, little bit of gossip for you guys, but Hickstead just has this and I will love it and I hope they always keep the kind of old school vibe of the, the old buildings and the balconies. And I feel like you guys have nailed both. [00:15:36] Speaker D: Oh, well, thank you. I mean, we're extremely proud of, really was an incredible vision and passion from my grandfather and my grandmother, Marg and Ron Southern and, and now my aunt Linda Southern. Epcot and her family have done an incredible job of, you know, maintaining the legacy and the heritage and the history behind it, while also still know, keeping up with the times and, and, and expanding and improving. And she's been an incredible leader for the, the entire facility. [00:16:08] Speaker A: When did you, first of all, two questions. When did you, because you obviously grew up, did you grow up on site? Were you allowed to ride in the ring? How strict were they? [00:16:18] Speaker D: So I, yeah, I mean, I grew up right at Spruce Meadows. I, I, we used to have a riding master. His name was Albert Klei. He came from Germany and he really helped my grandfather kind of designed the stables and how the facility would lay out and was my, my mother's coach and my aunt's coach and my sister's coach and my dad worked alongside Albert and I. I grew up riding ponies at Spruce Meadows, and he had a serious dressage background. So it was really about, you know, the basics and horsemanship. And I'm so lucky to have had a, an early trainer like that that really implemented, you know, the, the importance of horsemanship and the real basics of riding. And so I grew up there. But it was also my grandfather wanted Spruce Meadows to be the toughest, you know, competition in the world, and that he wanted to attract the best riders and the best horses. So I was never allowed to jump on those grass rings. If you wanted to be able to compete at Spruce Meadows, you had to, you know, showcase enough talent and skill and hard work and ethic to, to get to that level firsthand. And, you know, looking back on it, you know, there was definitely times where I thought, come on, Grandpa, like, why, why wouldn't you let me go and practice out here? But looking back on it, it was such a, it was such a great, you know, example that he set for me in that, in that case that if you, if you really want to go and compete here, you're going to have to, you know, work just as hard as, as any of these other [00:17:49] Speaker B: yeah, that's tough love, that is. [00:17:51] Speaker D: It is, it is. But I mean, that's sport. [00:17:53] Speaker B: I bet you appreciate it now. [00:17:54] Speaker D: I. For sure I do. For sure I do. Yeah. [00:17:57] Speaker A: When did you realize, though, that it isn't just your family's place? What, what was it competing in there yourself? When you realized what an institution is and how important it is? When was the moment you kind of went, oh, where I live is pretty, pretty bloody cool? [00:18:12] Speaker D: Yeah, I think I realized that pretty young, to be honest. I got to see so many different, you know, riders over the years and so many historic moments, you know, whether it was Nick Skelton or Rodrigo Pessoa or Ludger Bierbomb or Scott Brash winning the Rolex Grand Slam in 2015, the only guy that's ever done it, that happened in the arena. And those, those are moments that you do as a kid that's just like, so, you know, motivated by the sport and so passionate about the horses in the sport. It was, it was such an incredible, you know, way to grow up. I got to see, you know, I remember this one time I was riding Po. We used to have pony jumpers at the Spruce Meadows tournaments. And I remember thinking like, the jumps were way too big and I was so scared. But Nick Skelton came and helped me warm up one of my pony for the day. And it was like the coolest moment ever. I must have been 12 years old. And he signed his GPA hat for me after. And like, I still have the hat to this day. [00:19:10] Speaker B: The first time I ever heard of Spruce brothers was in 1991 when I was nine. Shane and Mark Todd had just won Burley. And the commentators were saying, oh, he's just come back from the richest show jumping show in the world at Spruce Meadows. Which one I think is absolutely amazing that Mark Todd was doing all of that because he did the Olympics as a jumper as well, didn't he? As well as the eventing. But like, so from a funding point of view, like, and obviously these classes are really like a 5 million pound grand prix. That's incredible. How, how, how is that maintained? How do you do that? Because I think that's one of the biggest things, especially in my sport, in the eventing sport, is that the prize money is so rubbish. [00:19:58] Speaker A: How do you maintain that Simon's lucky if he gets a rug and a hoof pick? [00:20:03] Speaker D: Well, it, it, it is, it's, it's extremely impressive, for sure. And the $5 million, I mean, we're in Canada, so we're not we don't use the pounds, but still it's, it's, it's, it's an astronomical amount of money and it really, you know, attracts them. But that is a real testament to the corporate sponsors of the venue. And it was something that was, you know, I think Ron, my grandfather and my Aunt Linda still to this day, they take so much time and so much care for the corporate sponsors. And you know, CPKC has been an incredible supporter of our venue for many, many years, as has Rolex, presenting sponsor of our Grand Prix. Bank of Montreal has had our nations cup for I think more years than I've been born. And, and, and so that's a real testament of the relationships that, that our families really created and sustained with those corporate sponsors and made them believe in something. It wasn't just about the sport. It, everybody to the venue and being able to enjoy the venue as a community place. And yeah, it's a pretty incredible story and it's humbling. It's very humbling. [00:21:20] Speaker B: Yeah, it's so true, isn't it? It's so much about the relationship that you guys have obviously built and created because without the sponsorship you wouldn't have the top riders, but without the top riders you wouldn't have the sponsorship. And you guys have kind of managed to link them together obviously over a long period of time and built a relationship so you can maintain it, which is really impressive for sure. [00:21:42] Speaker D: And you know, we're one of, one of the only venues in the world where the rider enters the ring and they give a salute to the corporate sponsor in the middle of the ring. So whoever's supporting that particular competition sits. We call it the playpen. And they'll sit in there with the family and so they get the best view in the house of the jumping event. And you salute them before you, before you start your round. And it was really important that the riders understood that if we have this stage to be able to compete and make it as the best sport in the world, we have to give back to not only our corporate sponsors, but the fans and be able to engage with the media so that we can grow and I mean to any viewers out there too, to really understand the story, there's an incredible documentary. It's a two episode documentary called Unbridled. And it really captures. It was produced and edited in house by the Spruce Meadows television team with Ian Allison behind it. And it's two episodes, it's about 40, 40 minutes each, but it captures the entire story. [00:22:51] Speaker A: I'd also love to speak to you not just about Spruce Meadows, but you yourself as a horseman. I've commentated on you actually over, over in Thunderbird, you've competed to the top, top level with some of the best riders in the world. What, what is it, do you think that horses have taught you about, about the sport, like from being around horses that, because obviously you're in this corporate side of it as well. What do you think horses have taught you about top level sport and riding at the top level that you could have never learned just being around horses? [00:23:27] Speaker D: I would say the horses taught me so, so much like just in, in general, in life. But the one word that really comes to mind is patience. Like, I mean, you can't rush that, those things. And I mean, Simon, Ben, I mean, I think you would agree, like, you have to, you have to be able to adapt to whatever you're riding and understand the horse in the right way and understand what the quirks are and what they like and what they don't like. I mean, you see it too many, too many times often that people rush those steps and it never works out like, and that's, to me that's like one of the best life lessons that horses have taught me is you have, if you want to compete at the highest level, you have to do things properly and in a process and really understand your horse. And at the end of the day it comes down to horsemanship. And I think that that's something that the Rolex Grand Slam really, you know, emulates is that you always see the best horsemen and best rider, horse combination win those events because they are the best horsemen at the end of the day, you know, and I think that that's something that I'm so, you know, blessed to have had those experiences with horses, with young horses and, and every single horse that I got to ride, whether they competed at the highest level or, or just a four year old that was able to get to a meter 10 level. You know, every horse had a, had a piece of my learning and incredibly grateful for them all. [00:24:56] Speaker A: Well, okay, this is a question for all three of you. What's the difference? What separates whoever wants to go first, a good horseman from being a good rider? And is there a separation? [00:25:12] Speaker B: Yes, there is. A good horseman reads, reads his horse and adapts to his horse and can help his horse. A really good rider. I think, I suppose it depends on what kind of context you're talking about it. But a good rider is somebody that can get on a really well trained horse and go and win. I think that's the big difference. Like a horseman is somebody that can say we need to stop or can take it slower or can help that horse get through whatever it needs to get through. That's how I look at it. [00:25:49] Speaker D: I agree. I'm interested in Ben. [00:25:53] Speaker A: Yeah, Ben, you, because you don't always ride, but you must see, you see a lot of riding and you obviously are on the floor for you. What's the difference between a good horseman and a good rider? [00:26:05] Speaker C: A good rider can execute on a trained horse. A good horseman can train the horse. [00:26:11] Speaker B: That's what I meant. [00:26:12] Speaker D: It was, it was very well said, Very well said. [00:26:16] Speaker B: I think I said it like a fat. [00:26:18] Speaker C: I've met people who can absolutely ride, say like a dressage test at a high level. They can ride the movements better than I can. But if I gave them a four year old and said come back in two years and have it have nice piaffe and passage and just like, you know, and you're not allowed outside help, [00:26:38] Speaker D: you've got to do it, [00:26:41] Speaker C: you know, not everybody that can ride at that level. But I'd also say that's not actually a, that's not a, a criticism really. That's just an observation of how the world works. I would also say that a lot of talented horsemen, slash riders get stuck in those lower levels because they never get the chance to refine at that higher level because they can make horses and so they make horses and then sell them and so they don't get to hang on to those horses once they're made and, and become the rider so that, you know, each, I would say each has their, has their good sides and their, and their, and their downsides for sure. [00:27:23] Speaker B: That's a bit like. Can you remember Chilly Morning, the stallion who won badminton with William Fox Pitt? He was produced initially by Nick Gauntlet. And Nick did a really lovely job on the horse. Did a brilliant job of producing. It always went quite steady, but like the horse was so well produced. And then as soon as William had it off, it just flew and it won everything. And you say that Nick was a proper horseman, the way he produced that horse for somebody to be able to get on it and then just go and do that. Is that what you mean? [00:27:57] Speaker D: For sure. The other thing that comes to my mind too is longevity too. I mean, if you look at like the real horsemen of the world, whether you're in inventing dressage or jumping, whatever, it may be like the longevity of the horse's career, that they have, too. There's a lot of top riders in the world that are incredible competitors, like, I mean, balls to the wall fast and can execute something so, so well. But the real top legends of the sport, you know, have kept those, have produced the horses like Ben and Simon are talking about, but also kept them at that level for a number of years, which requires so much more thought and effort than people may not understand, you know, that are outside of the sport. Because that is, I mean, it's management and it's understanding when to rest them and when to push them and when to, you know, make those moves and when to put the big goal on the calendar in play or. Or not, or step back away from it or, you know, and. And you look at the top, top riders of the world, that's what they do so well, is the. Is the management of their horses as well. They're able to execute for sure, but they. They manage their horses so well and they treat them with such respect because they know that without them, they're not. They're. They're nothing. Right? I mean, they're not going to go and jump those fences on their own. [00:29:19] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's that it's very hard for riders, isn't it? And then you've got. You, like Simon, you know this more than anyone as well. Like, you've then got the pressure of owners and, and so much going on, and it takes quite a lot to put. Put the horse first. But like you say, the ones who have that longevity really do, I think, and really do put those horses first. [00:29:40] Speaker D: Yeah. One of, I mean, the cool thing is we, this year at Spruce, we have Richie Vogel coming as the live contender. And so that's going to be a really, really cool event because he is sitting on, you know, the best horse that he's ever had in his life. And. But that the story of how those two came together is also just incredible. You know, they. They won some of the biggest events in the world, but United Touch, when he was a young stallion, he was in the hands of some of the best riders in the world. Like, and they all saw potential. They, you know, I was speaking to Willem Greven and Ludger Bierbomb about this. They all saw potential in the horse and they all had the opportunity to have him, but they thought, oh, you know, he's super scopey and he's going to be able to jump a big track, but is the rideability ever going to be there? His stride is like 14ft long, and I don't know if you're ever going to be able to get him back for those technical lines in this highest level of the sport. And I think that, you know, Richie and that horse were meant to be together. Like, I think that they, they found their path right at the right time. You know, this horse had been kind of passed around from, for a few different, like top trainers, not like they incredible riders. But Richie really came to that horse's, you know, life at the right time and, and vice versa. And I think that, you know, I, I got to witness how Richie worked even when he was younger. I wrote it Ludger Bierbomb stable for two years. And at that time he was Philip Weishaupt's stable jockey. And I mean he, he rode everything from, from breaking in the three year olds to going to jump the two star Grand Prix. I mean he always had talent, but also his work ethic was just second to none. And the ability to adapt to so many different types of horses, it was so evident even back then, you know, and he didn't really even have any international experience back then, but you could just tell that this was somebody that was going to go far in the sport because he would be mucking out the boxes at 6am and ride, you know, 10 horses throughout the day and still go and do the night, check and check every single leg out. You know, he was just, he was, he was an incredible example to watch even just when we were young. Like it was like, this guy's going to go far. [00:31:54] Speaker A: That makes me, I loved him. I first interviewed him at the World cup this year and he fell off. Just start. He got through the time but he fell off at the last fence and, and so many riders in those moments don't come for interviews, don't want to talk about it. They. He came, he hadn't even brushed the sand off and he came for interviews. It's the World Cup. Riders have to remember that if without the media we're not getting any like, coverage, no sponsors. And he was like straight in there. And I was like, Richard, that was so unlucky. Just, just mishap to the last. He was like, Jenny, it was not unlucky. It was bad riding. And I was like, okay, sorry. But he's so hard on himself for sure. Even with a good round. He, I mean, I think he won at Spruce Meadows last year, one of the, one of the other classes. And he was like, I still did a bad line to the. Sorry, I'm trying to do a really terrible German accent, but I still did a bad line. I still could have taken a better line to the last fence for my horse. I'm like, Richard, you won. But yeah, he is. I'm so. It's so nice to hear your experience with him because you can see there's a good horseman in there. But he's so hard on himself, isn't he? [00:33:04] Speaker D: For sure. But I think it comes from a place of really wanting to do the best by his horse though, too. You know, like he, he gets angry at himself if he makes a mistake because he knows that, you know, he had the horse is ready and if he makes that mistake, then he takes that away from the horse. So I think it comes from a very, very good place. But he's also very, very, you know, honest and humble about when he makes a mistake. He's never, you know, you never hear that guy blame it on the horse. Which is, which is, in my opinion is one of the most important things for, for younger people that are getting involved in the sport. In the sport. You know, don't just blame on the horse. Like, you got to do your job properly and you got to, you know, create those pathways for the horse to, to do it sustainably. And you never hear Richard Vogel say, oh, the horse wasn't good enough for, or he made a mistake there. It's always his fault. So true. True. Kudos to Richie. [00:33:57] Speaker A: Now I ask, boys, do you know what the Rolex grand style. Because Ben doesn't have time to follow as much show jumping as I do. Do you know what the Rolex Grand Slam of show jumping actually entails? [00:34:09] Speaker C: I actually think I do. [00:34:11] Speaker A: You do? You don't? [00:34:13] Speaker C: I think I do. [00:34:14] Speaker A: Well, I'd like to hear you explain it, Ben. [00:34:17] Speaker C: God, if I'm wrong, this is going [00:34:19] Speaker D: to be so bad. [00:34:21] Speaker A: I think it's. [00:34:22] Speaker C: Isn't it like one of those things where there's a, like there's a group of these insanely high level competitions around the world and if you can win them all, then that's the Grand Slam, isn't it? [00:34:33] Speaker A: Close. [00:34:35] Speaker C: And hence why, like, it never happens. Has happened once. [00:34:40] Speaker D: It's happened once. [00:34:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:42] Speaker D: By Brit. [00:34:43] Speaker C: How far off am I? [00:34:45] Speaker A: Ben will do a better job of explaining it to me. Ben, I also want to know, does it have to be on the same horse? [00:34:53] Speaker D: Does not now. [00:34:54] Speaker A: I don't think it does not. [00:34:56] Speaker C: That seems, that seems not fair. Sorry. I should know what, I should know what it is before I start kicking off. [00:35:02] Speaker D: But to be honest, when Scott Brash won the Rolex Grand Slam. He did it all on the same horse. [00:35:08] Speaker A: Hello, Sanctos. [00:35:09] Speaker D: Yeah, on. Hello, Sanctos. And, yeah, Ben, you were very close in. In describing what it is. It's four of the most prestigious events in the world. And you could compare it to the Grand Slam of tennis or the Grand Slam of golf. There's. The events themselves are spaced out. It's about one every quarter of the year. So you have it. The. The circuit starts in S. Hertogenbosch, Holland, for the Dutch Masters. That's the first major. And then you have Aachen, it's the second major. And then you have Spruce Meadows in September, which is the Masters tournament. That's the third. And then you have Geneva in December. So when Scott won, there was only three of the major events in 2015. And then they added the Dutch Masters and Sir Togenbosch to make four. And so you have two indoor events and two outdoor events. And if you're able to win, I mean, winning one of those events on their own is an incredible feat. I mean, that. That was like. As a kid, that was my goal. I never even thought about winning all four of them. Like, I was like, if I can get close to one of them, which I never did, but I had the. I had the. The opportunity and the. The experience to at least go and jump a couple of them, which is really, really cool. But it's. You win two in a row, you have a bonus, you win three in a row. That's. That's the. The Grand Slam. And that's only been done once by. By Scott Brash and hello, Sanctos. That happened at spruce meadows in 2015. And to this day, it was. It is still the most incredible spectator experience I have ever had in the sport. I mean, you. When you were in the stadium, when Scott was going in the second round, we all knew that he was capable of doing it. You could hear a pin drop in the stadium. Like, it was just so electric. You could feel how much pressure and how much nerves he was carrying. And if you watch the round over again, they had. It was their day. Like, they had a couple lucky, lucky rubs. Like, one of the cups almost bounced out of the cups and came back and landed in the cup like it was just their day. But, like, when he won, you saw the biggest camaraderie of all, of all the athletes. Every single one of the athletes was standing at the end gate. And when he did it, like, it was just the coolest thing ever. Everybody's giving him hugs. And, I mean, what he accomplished was just incredible. Like, even talking about it gives me goosebumps. And, yeah, it was really cool. [00:37:42] Speaker B: How much did he win? [00:37:46] Speaker D: I think he got a million euro bonus. Million euro bonus on top of the three, two and a half or $3 million prize pot that was in there. So I think he made over 2 million Euro that day or something like that. It was a big. It was a good payday. [00:38:08] Speaker A: Do you think that people watching outside of the sport and people who might be listening to this podcast, you've never watched show jumping before and. Or we have a lot of eventing fans on here because of Sime. Do you think that is fundamentally what people don't understand is just how bloody hard it is to win these events? [00:38:27] Speaker D: I think so. I think it's. Yeah, that's why I try to compare it to. I think, you know, Rolex has been such an instrumental custodian of our sport, and they've really highlighted the, They've supported the events that have that heritage and that legacy and that. That strive to be excellent and like, looking after the smallest detail, whether it's, you know, stabling for the horses, footing for the horses, like, those are the type events that they are supporting. And it truly is so difficult. Like, it, it's the same thing. As you look at golf. There's the Grand Slam of the pga. I think that there's six actual Grand Slam winners over like a hundred years or something like that. And that's what it is comparable to. I mean, I, I think that it requires. And I, I really, I. I hope that Richie just goes out and has the most fun ever jumping that Grand Prix because he's in contention, and I think he has a chance of doing it. He's sitting on one of the best horses in the world. He's one of the best riders in the world. But I don't think that you're going to see that year after year. Hello, Sanctos and Scott Bradford, another example of that. I mean, they were just. They were just one of the most incredible combinations the sport's ever seen, and that's what it takes. But to your point, I mean, the, the details and the work that goes behind the scenes to get ready for one of those events, I mean, that's judged on 85 seconds in the arena. But the hours and the. Every single day that you're working with those horses and making sure that they're fit and ready and healthy and happy and want to do their job like that is what a lot of people don't understand. How much Work goes into that. [00:40:13] Speaker C: Yeah. Because when you compare it to like a golf Grand Slam, a golf club can't go lame or get colic. [00:40:20] Speaker D: Exactly. [00:40:21] Speaker C: Decided. Decided to hit the ball too hard yesterday and so it's now scared and doesn't want to do it. Like you. [00:40:29] Speaker D: Exactly. [00:40:29] Speaker C: Balancing. That's the thing with horses, isn't it? Like, I know, I know it's different because I get away with it because I'm performing, so I can change the plan. But, yeah, your horse only has to come out that day and be like, nah, it's slightly warmer here than it is at home. So I'm. I'm not playing. It's true, though, isn't it? So it's. Yeah. But you think you've taken it all the way there. I would have been a mess the morning if I was him. You're thinking, I'm. If today goes well, I'm the first person in history to do this and I get millions. And if today goes badly, I'm never probably going to get this opportunity again. [00:41:03] Speaker D: Mm. Yeah. It's a lot of pressure, for sure. Yeah. [00:41:06] Speaker B: I was thinking about this week. I was thinking about it this week. Cause I was at Heartbury and in the Four Star, Zara Tindall won the Four star, which was really cool and good for her. Like, she really meant business and she really went for it. It was a really good win. But I was looking at the results afterwards and it had, like the prize money on there and stuff, and she. And she actually won quite a lot for eventing. She won five grand for winning this four. Now, Zara, I can't remember, I don't know the last time she won a four star. A long time ago. You might even have been the Worlds. I don't know. [00:41:42] Speaker A: That horse is 17 and it's. I don't think it's ever won a four star. [00:41:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And which just goes to how hard it is to do that. And it was. Out of 80 people. 80. 80 starters and she wins £5,000. I mean, that's just. That's. It's just. It's not good enough, is it? I was gonna. It was gonna be what's annoyed me this week, to be honest. Like, why. Yeah, you know, it's just the prize win should be so much better than that. Like, the amount of efforts you had to go into to win, that is just. [00:42:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:11] Speaker B: I mean, five grand doesn't even cover, like, probably the last couple of months. [00:42:16] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. It. It has to be a passion, that's for sure. [00:42:22] Speaker B: Definitely has to be that definitely has to be that. And I was 13th and I won 70 towns. [00:42:28] Speaker A: Oh, Simi. Yay. [00:42:31] Speaker C: I mean, it's amazing that you won that, but at the same time, that's all. [00:42:35] Speaker B: That's pathetic. [00:42:36] Speaker C: I think it's worse getting your 70 pounds from there than when it was that you took that young horse out and were like. And they chased you with your rosette in the baby class. That is, it's, it's a little bit like, like I'd rather have not got anything, to be honest. [00:42:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, 70 quid, like, it doesn't even remotely pay for the stable, like, [00:42:58] Speaker C: because that even cover the cost of the fuel. [00:43:01] Speaker B: It wouldn't even cover the cost of fuel. [00:43:02] Speaker C: No. [00:43:04] Speaker A: I was trying to explain this on my commentary because I was saying to Ben, a lot of the places I commentate at, it goes out across the bleachers and to people who've never ridden. And I was saying the one disadvantage you have as a horse rider and especially eventing, it's like people will go, oh, did you win? I'm like, no, I'm just happy I survived. I was on a five year old that was trying to kill me. I'm just glad I stayed in the dressage boards or I'm glad I didn't get run out of the arena. And that's one of the things you. Because I was commentating on the three star and what the riders can't tell the audience as there's no judge in show jumping, but as you, Ben Simon, you can't tell the dressage judge is, this is an 8 year old, has not done this before. Please don't judge me. I just really want to get through this happy and I want to pat my horse at the end. And you, you can't. You're not allowed to say that before you go in. I always feel like there should be an interview before, not afterwards. [00:43:58] Speaker C: So what you're saying is that if, if, if anybody doesn't ride and their friends are competing on horses, you need the same mindset as when your friend runs a marathon. Because if your mate runs a marathon, you never go, where did you place? Like, you're, you're just like, oh, my God, that's amazing. Like, well done. [00:44:17] Speaker D: Did you get to the finish line? [00:44:18] Speaker C: Yeah. Did you finish it? And, and it's, yeah, that same sort of mindset opposed to like, you didn't win badminton. [00:44:28] Speaker B: Ugh, you loser. [00:44:29] Speaker A: It's when people don't congratulate you after you've done something, they go, how do you feel about that? Oh, okay. That's like when I got my degree and I got a two two and everyone else got two ones. If you got a two one, everyone's like, yay, well done. And with me, they were like, how do you feel about that? I survived university. Anyone who drank as much as I did at university is just happy to be alive right now. So I want to move on, Ben, because I didn't get much sleep last night because I went and bought a Roku stick and I watched four, five episodes of Faultless. [00:45:02] Speaker D: Oh, great. Super. Did you enjoy it? [00:45:06] Speaker A: I. Very much so. I. Well, I'm such a fan girl anyway, but I think so. We have. We get this a lot. A lot of people on. And especially in the eventing world as well. A lot of people, why don't they make a drive to survive the horse world? Why don't they do a drive survive version? I'm on LinkedIn with a lot of sponsors, a lot of people chatting. We need a drive. Well, it's happened, people. You, Ben, you have taken it upon yourself to create Faultless, which is. I mean, I have worked in the TV industry for a long time now. I first of all know how hard it is to wrangle riders to doing anything. I know how hard it is to produce anything and find their time to film them. But I also know the budgets involved, the logistics involved, because they're never in one country very long. Can you tell us where did this idea for Faultless come from? Congratulations on it. Thank you. And just the enormous feat I know it must have taken to pull off this show is incredible, boys. When it comes to the uk, you have to watch it. It is so blooming cool. Whether you like show jumping or not. Sorry. I'll stop banging on about how much I love it. Ben, tell me about it. [00:46:18] Speaker D: Thank you, Jenny. That's really kind of you. And we're very excited about it. I first have to say, it's. It was not just me. I did. I did a lot of work to. To get the riders involved. But the idea originally started with my brother, who does not ride. He's my older brother, but he was obviously grew up around the spruce meadows and has the same love and passion for the facility and the sport that I do. But he. He really kind of came up with the initial idea I had originally. I had gotten hurt last. Last winter. Yeah, last Christmas, a year ago. I was training at home on a stallion and I got bucked off and I ruptured my spleen and it was A. It was quite a. Quite a bad injury. I got to the hospital and, you know, had to have a couple blood transfusions, and it was. It was sketchy because it was one of those times where you fall off and I thought maybe broke my rib or something, but got back on and rode for a bit. And then all of a sudden, you know, blood pressure's dropping and you're going white, and then you're rushed off to the hospital. That aside, I was just. [00:47:26] Speaker A: Aside only a rapture. [00:47:27] Speaker D: Typical. [00:47:28] Speaker C: Were you disappointed that that hadn't happened while filming? Because that would have been, like, much better. [00:47:34] Speaker D: That's good yesterday, isn't it? I mean, I'm. I'm happy that it didn't happen while they were filming me, but it would have been good drama, for sure. So, anyways, I was out for about three months, and I was kind of a little bit down on the dumps, and my brother came to me with an idea, and he was like, why haven't we done this? You know, like, we. Back in the day, we were creating some really, really cool videos called Thrills and Spills at Spruce Meadows, and people loved it. Like, it was on YouTube. And I remember being a kid and, like, even people in Europe would watch these YouTube videos of what Spruce Meadows was. And. And we kind of wanted to revamp that. And we also saw an opportunity because all these other sports were doing these docu series, and what they were doing was they were focusing on a sport, but they were really focusing on the people in the sport and trying to attract, you know, a bigger audience to that sport. And I think that's what Drive. Drive to Survive did so well for the sport of F1 is, like, when people are able to kind of relate to a character or a hero, and you can humanize those people and be like, oh, I can relate to that. He's got a kid, and he's still got to get up in the morning and bring his kid to school and then go to work and then do all those things or whatever it is. People just get engaged with those people, and then they. And then all of a sudden, oh, I'm going to go and watch that event, because I know that so and so is going to compete there. And so that's really kind of how the idea started. And it started humbly. My brother and I, we. We put in our own, you know, work and resources and time into getting a very small skeleton crew, and we shipped off to S. Togenbosch, which was a major. And I had no experience in, you know, producing a TV show or let alone, you know, just being there and having a camera guy and an audio guy and a, you know, sound technician and then just, just rocking up there and getting the accreditation to go and, you know, follow these athletes. And I think that it really, it really started to come, you know, full circle when my brother was adamant that we had to get this onto major networks, not just market it to our own people. And so we really worked hard and we found an incredible production partner in Terminal B Television, who's out of la, in Hollywood. A CEO of Terminal B's have has numerous Emmy Awards and really knew that industry well, and we really knew the sport industry well. And so it was kind of just a perfect team that we created because I was able to go and talk to all these riders and a lot of these riders I know very well from being on the circuit, but a lot of them I still look up to as my heroes, like guys like Steve Gerdat and Ludger Bierbomb and, you know, all these guys, Richard Vogel, Will Engrava. And I think that we were able to get the buy in from them because they knew a bit of our story at Spruce Meadows and how we tried to integrate the media and try to create, you know, that huge sports stage. And I think that they, you know, appreciate and respect that manner. And they also knew that we weren't going to go and try to make this a Real Housewives of the Show Jumping world. Like we. [00:50:46] Speaker A: Although I would watch that, by the [00:50:48] Speaker B: way, that would be. [00:50:48] Speaker D: I know, and I'm sure a lot of people would, but we really wanted to make it about the sport, about the people that are behind it and how much work and dedication goes into these horses and how much they care about these horses and how much time and the teams that are behind these horses. That's what we wanted to make it about. And I think that the riders bought into that and we capture those major events, what happens behind the scenes, how those people prepare for them and the relationships that they have. And we're incredibly proud of it. Uh, for. For those of you that don't have Roku, we. So our first launch was on Roku in the United States and Canada, but we will be releasing the content in the uk, Ireland, US and Canada on Amazon prime within the next week to 10 days. [00:51:35] Speaker A: So exciting. [00:51:36] Speaker B: Oh, cool. [00:51:37] Speaker D: So it should be available for everybody there to watch. Well, we're also. We'll have a number of different distribution partners to watch globally, including horse and country TV and There's. It's being streamed in Asia now with some, with some linear channels. But yeah, we're incredibly proud of it. It's our hope for it is that it grows our sport and just gets people that might not be privy or had the chance to watch a show jumping event fall in love with one of the characters, you know, and I think that that's what the show does. [00:52:18] Speaker C: How many riders do you follow in the show? [00:52:20] Speaker D: So we follow 14. [00:52:22] Speaker B: Oh, I know, right? [00:52:25] Speaker A: I know. [00:52:26] Speaker C: So we've spent the last year following. I'm making little film. Nowhere near on the scale of this, of just sort of us and our season. Us performing. [00:52:35] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:52:36] Speaker C: Logistically, just me and my team, the amount of cameras and people. And then you're like, oh, that was a good moment. So we need to interview that groom. Oh, crap. That person wasn't meant to be in this. But they actually were a really interesting part there. So now they are. But that times 14. Like, do you have. Did you have set days with different athletes or did you have different crews out? [00:53:01] Speaker D: Yeah, it was. The logistics was nuts. It really was, but it was so worth it. Like, I mean, looking back on it was such a cool experience. I got to travel so many different venues. I had never been to Hickstadt before and I had never been to Dublin before. And so going to those venues that I've, you know, dreamed about competing at as a kid was just so neat. Like, even though I wasn't riding, I was still. I felt, I felt like I was still so involved. And that was the coolest thing about it. But the logistics were wild, just like you said, experience to be behind the scenes of something like that. But yeah, we, I mean, my job really was to nail down these, these riders and, and, and sell them on this idea that, like, I think this could be really good for our sport. I think it could be really good for. For your own brand. And we really wanted to make something that not only the riders and the kind of core fans of show jumping would enjoy, but also people that have nothing to do with the sport. And so it was that fine line of kind of like teaching people about the sport without dumbing it down too much, you know, and kind of just getting after what these people do every single day of their life and how much time and energy and effort and care goes into what they're doing. I also think that there's a really good contrast of different stories there. And it's, you know, you have all walks of life within the industry. Some may have had an. I Shouldn't say an easier background, but maybe had a little bit more of a financial background behind them that made it a little bit. Or help them get to the level that they're at. But you also have incredible athletes like Daniel Coyle and Matt Sampson, you know, that didn't necessarily come from a super wealthy background to get. And they're still competing at the top level of sport. And I think that's so good for people to see outside of the sport, but also within the sport that if you have the right tactics and the right skill set and the right work ethic and the right respect for the. For the animals, you still have a chance. Whether you have financial backing behind you. It just. It might require a bit more effort and might require a little bit more hard work, but it's still possible. But it really follows the entire Rolex Grand Slam season of last year. And I think that there's some incredibly incredible storylines there. It's very international. We focused on some of the most historic and legacy events in the world. And it was a. A real honor and a real pleasure to be part of that. [00:55:33] Speaker A: What I think you did so well was nail the. Because one of the things I'm so passionate about is trying to explain the sport and trying to help people understand it. And I have to do that. My commentary, because it goes off a lot to people who don't know about the sport. And you absolutely hit the nail on the head with explaining how the sport works. I thought that was absolutely brilliant. But without. I know how the sport works and I didn't get bored in those moments, which I think is really hard to do. I was like such a good way of explaining it. That was really. And just. Yeah, I thought. And the way the story. I mean, also there's an element of luck, isn't there, that the story ended like it did at Spruce Meadows. And how the story. Because you film. I don't want to give too much away because I really want people to watch it. But you film this writer called Carl King, who I know incredibly well. I've been commentating on him for ages. But you open on the first episode with, he's the most famous rider no one's heard about. [00:56:30] Speaker D: Yeah. No, that was a bit of a. Yeah, it was a bit brutal, wasn't it? [00:56:33] Speaker A: Actually, it's absolutely brilliant. He wears a giant cowboy hat. And then you chose him to follow on this story and how the story ends with him and Big Mama, as I call her, his mare. There's an element of luck, but also just the stars so aligned to make this an exciting series for you. And his story in it is absolutely. I mean, I'm so proud of him because I've seen him. I was there when he first did the, he brought that mare to Thunderbird. He did his first fei. I was commentating on it and I was like, oh my God, Karl, that mare is incredible. He's like, no, I'm so excited about her. And then to see this story play out and you guys capture it. Oh, so cool. [00:57:18] Speaker D: So for, for Ben and Simi, I mean, I'm sure you guys have, you know, colleagues or friends within your industry that he's one of those, those, those people that have been around the sport for so long and has such talent and such work ethic, but, you know, was always a catch rider, would always just show up to, to a tournament and just, you know, he rode the most difficult horses or the younger horses or whatever and just always was there. And he's finally found this, this horse that he's, he's put together with a group of syndicate owners. And it was actually my, my brother Kyle Kloss's idea to get Kyle, because we were, we were searching for one more person and we really wanted kind of like an underdog story. And Kyle had kind of just gotten this, this mare and he was kind of, you know, just starting the five star level with her and having a rail or two, but looked like it was quite promising. And yeah, the whole story just it. When what happened in the Grand Prix in the final episode, like, I remember being there with the crew and just being like, oh my goodness, this is the coolest thing that could have happened because, you know, we've got all this like home footage of him just saying that, like, the one place he feels like comfortable is walking into the international ring and then he believes in a miracle and he's a long shot and he talks about how nobody's gonna know you know, his name and they're not going to be saying that he's going to be the one to win on in the Grand Prix. But he has this sense of belief in himself that's, that's humble but also like, you can feel it when you're watching the, his, his story. And then he has an incredible finish. He's pushing 50 years old now and he's, it's the first time that he's had kind of this opportunity to jump on that international stage with a, with a good horse and he's doing so well. So it's, it's a really Neat story, but I think all the stories are really, really, really, really cool. [00:59:04] Speaker A: How did you choose your riders? Because I've worked with a lot of them. You managed to get more chat out of some of them than I've managed to get in the past, I can tell you. Riders, Simon and Ben are very unique in their ability to converse compared to some riders, because riders are good at riding for a reason, because that is, [00:59:24] Speaker D: like, all they do. [00:59:26] Speaker B: Yeah, because they don't like people. [00:59:30] Speaker D: I like horses. Yeah. Yeah, it was challenging, for sure. It was challenging. We. There was. We wanted it to be, like, top level. So we. I really, you know, exercised my relationships with the riders and, you know, told them the idea behind what we were doing and what we wanted to do. And I think that they bought into that. And so. But like you said, I mean, they're tough to track down and our partners at Terminal B, you know, they, they make great tv, but they had no idea what this, what, what these people were like and how this, you know, this worked. And so they're like, well, is he not going to do, you know, like, what's he. Does he go, like, do something on Monday or Tuesday? It's like, no, he's going to be at the stable riding the young horses or. Well, what about Tuesday? Well, he's probably going to be, you know, going to some little local show with a few young horses or taking those big horses to another event this weekend. Like, they were just like, what? These people are crazy. Like, they literally, all they do is just spend time with their horses. But they really bought in and they started to love the sport and they loved the characters. Like, they became actual fans of these people that they got to follow around and they did their job so well. Because in the beginning, I was doing a lot of the questions, like, to the athletes, and the one thing I found was, like, I've competed against these guys and I've ridden alongside a lot of them, and it wasn't as quite as organic until we got our partners at Terminal B, because they had actual producers that had worked on, you know, some very delicate, like, situations and relationships in, in tv. They were just able to get these people to open up as a normal person and, and talk about normal day life. And then we would move into what. What it was in their toolbox that made them so good as a rider. But it was first about, who are you as a human? You know, why. What is it that motivates you to do what you're doing? And that. That really got people to open up some more than others. And. But, you know, I'm like, Steve Gridat, for instance, is my. One of my biggest heroes ever. I think he's an incredible horseman. I think he's an incredible athlete. He's such a good, like, ambassador of our sport. Really cares about his horses. And I mean, I remember calling him for the first time and being so nervous about, like, asking him to do this, because it was like, he's a hero of mine. But, like, you know, I. Please believe me. I'm gonna do a good. You know, I'm gonna do a good job. And I really. We carried that with us the entire time. It's like, okay, we've got these people to buy in. We better do this right. No pressure, you know. Yeah, gotta make it. [01:02:12] Speaker C: Producers. Producers being in those meetings with riders and being like, yeah, so if one of you. The Grand Slam, that would be amazing because it'd look great on the show. And it's like, yeah, that's. That's the plan anyway. [01:02:22] Speaker A: Yeah, that. [01:02:23] Speaker D: That was a cool thing, though. Like, that was one of the. The neat things is, like, we never forced drama. Like, we never said, like, we need this to happen. We knew that the drama at the top level of sport would happen on its own. You know, it's like any other sport. It just can't. It comes like, you. You get the stories of the riders, and then you just let the drama unfold on its own. And that's really what happened. Like, there was nothing for us. Like, I mean, these riders were miked up and had cameras on them pretty much all day, like entering a tournament or when we came to their home for a home visit. And they had to trust us. I mean, obviously. And we. We had a real, you know, understanding of trust. But the drama just happens on its own. [01:03:04] Speaker B: And was it like Big Brother when they forget they've got the mics on and they start saying stuff that's really inappropriate? [01:03:11] Speaker D: No comment. [01:03:13] Speaker A: I can testify to this because I had to interview Matt and the boys after they won the nations cup on the. They do it in the show and we're all sat. And I was having a chat because I know Matt Sampson. I love him. And I was like, boys, I'm live tomorrow, so make sure you come and chat to me. And don't. Don't bugger off. You've got to do your interviews. Because some of them like, oh, yeah, Jenny, I'll come and do an interview. And you see just them hightailing it away from camera as quick as possible. And Matt said to me, he was like, oh, so who is it that tends to just run away from you? And I mentioned a couple of riders that are on my don't be a bugger list. And I turn around and there is a camera in my face. And I went, ha ha. Jenny. I was mic'd up for that. I was like, [01:03:57] Speaker D: yeah, yeah. [01:03:58] Speaker A: Luckily it wasn't in there. Me slagging off one of the riders. [01:04:02] Speaker D: Matt was such a good character too. Like, he. He's just, he's such a. He's a great friend of mine, but he's. He's just, you know, he's made for tv. [01:04:09] Speaker B: Like, he really is. [01:04:11] Speaker D: He's made for tv. Like, he's. He's just so personable and so humble and he's just like so easy to, to watch and listen to. You know, he's. He's there for the right reasons and he's an incredible competitor and he's hungry to get better all the time. And his story of like Kara and him just like working together too is really neat. You know, we. We focus on Matt a lot in, in Hickstad and we. Yeah, I think a cool piece of that episode is that like, we go back to like what he's, you know, trying to coach to his students, you know, and we. And like the kind of grassroots part of that too. And I think that's really inspirational to a lot of people. And he was, he was an excellent thing. But I, I don't know, I can't help but think that my grandfather was up in heaven on. During the 50th anniversary of our Masters tournament. It's our final episode of this thing and it was just like all these things just kind of happened. Like the Brits, they win the nation's cup on the 50th anniversary of Spruce Meadows while the Duchess of Edinburgh, Her Royal Highness is there watching. And it's British Day at Spruce Meadows. And then, you know, the Grand Prix happens and you've got Scott Brash, the guy that's won the Grand Islam in the second round. And you've got this long shot story of this Kyle King who's made it to the second round. And it like just, it was just wild that it all kind of just fell together at the right time in the right place. It was pretty special, [01:05:40] Speaker A: is. You guys have got to see it. I'm so excited for you guys to see it. Final question about the show. Did any of your opinions change on any of them when you were filming? Did you learn anything, like personally as someone who's done this and competed with them, did anyone surprise you? [01:05:56] Speaker D: I, I wouldn't. I, I mean, I think the only thing that really surprised me is like, I had even deeper respect for them after, like, I had, I had so much respect for all of these people and I still do. Like, I, I think that they're incredible human beings and I think that they're incredible at what they do. And then also to just open up their, you know, their lives to us and showcase, you know, who they were as people was extremely humbling. And it's just like any other sport. If you're competing at the highest level of any sport, the dedication and the determination that it takes to do that is wild. [01:06:32] Speaker B: That was a very well crafted response there, Ben. I'm impressed. They'll definitely be coming back more. [01:06:38] Speaker A: I wanted some gossip. I wanted you to go. [01:06:40] Speaker B: One of them. [01:06:41] Speaker A: One of them. [01:06:41] Speaker B: Must be no anchor at one point, surely. [01:06:45] Speaker D: I think that you'll have really enjoyed episode five. We go to Dublin and we follow Daniel Coyle and Derek Kenny. And in my opinion, it's one of my favorite episodes because these first of the Irish, they have very colorful language. They don't hold back there. There is some serious drama that unfolds at the event in Dublin, especially in Dara's case. And he, he, he goes unfiltered about what his thoughts are on team is operating and you know, the stress that he has and, and I have, you know, a tremendous amount of respect for him because it wasn't that he was bad in any means, but he spoke his mind and he was fully honest about what he thought. And it just goes to show you how much he cares about his team and his horses being recognized in the top level of sport. And I think that the viewers will really enjoy that episode because you see just how intense it gets. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I love it. [01:07:51] Speaker A: Right, Ben, we have had you now for an hour and 15. This has just literally gone so quickly. I am loving this. I've got a new section. So we've got a section in this podcast which is called what's annoyed you this week. Which we're going to come to. It doesn't have to be horse related. In a world where everyone is Zen. Well, how do you describe it, Ben? [01:08:09] Speaker C: In a world full of mindfulness and positivity, we're fighting back against that. With what? What's annoyed you this week? You don't always have to manifest a better day. You can moan about today and that's [01:08:21] Speaker D: fine, but I like it. [01:08:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I've got a new section. The boys don't even know about this. I've got some quick fire questions for you. [01:08:29] Speaker D: All right. [01:08:29] Speaker A: Because I. I quite like it when riders don't have time to think. So this is. They're easy. All right, I'm trying it out on you, Ben. If it's terrible, we're going to edit it out. The boys are like, I might have to do this on the boys next episode, actually. Okay, so first of all, what's the horse that's. Who's the horse that's taught you the most? [01:08:48] Speaker D: McAvoy. [01:08:50] Speaker A: Oh, I like McAvoy. That was your Nation's cup horse, wasn't it? [01:08:52] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:08:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:08:54] Speaker A: Quick reason why I just. [01:08:58] Speaker D: He taught me how to become a horseman. It was not always easy, but he was incredibly talented, and I was very lucky to have that horse at a young age. My dad did a lot of producing on him when it. While he was young, and just to share that kind of bond with one horse with my dad as my trainer, and then go on to have some great success with him was just an incredible experience that I'll never forget. [01:09:25] Speaker A: Like that. Have you ever had a horse tell you something you didn't want to hear? [01:09:31] Speaker D: So many times. So many times you think you're ready for something and, yeah, they just teach you that you can't force anything. You know, it's. It's. It'll never work out in your favor if you try to force something. So I. I think that there's a number of horses that I've written in my career that have taught me that from a very young age, whether they were, you know, 4 year olds, 5 year olds, 8 year olds, 10 year olds, and just, you know, trying to get to the next level and not. Not having all the basics, fundamental basics, you know, polished yet. And so, you know, you make mistakes and. But I think that that's something that horses teach you so well, is that that patient aspect of making sure that those fundamentals are there and that trust is there before you go and try to push something. [01:10:17] Speaker A: Such a good answer. I'm literally just fangirling you right now, Ben. I love that answer. Which horse would you clone if you could? [01:10:26] Speaker D: McEvoy. [01:10:27] Speaker A: Ah, love McEvoy. Go back and look at the. One of Ben's rounds. I think it's on YouTube. I was watching it last night. That was a legend of a h. Yeah, he was. Which horse. Which horse in the world would you steal if nobody could ever find out? [01:10:43] Speaker D: Ooh, living today. [01:10:47] Speaker A: Any yeah, living. Go for it. [01:10:51] Speaker C: Oof. [01:10:51] Speaker D: That's so tough. There's so many good ones. [01:10:53] Speaker A: I know, right? Especially these days, there seems to be just this kind of bucket load of amazing horses out there. [01:11:03] Speaker D: I would have to say hermitage is incredible. [01:11:12] Speaker A: You might have to tell Ben who that is, who it belongs to. [01:11:16] Speaker D: Hermitage is incredible. But the other one that I have to say, like. And it's not. He's not around so much anymore. As your favorite rider is Cedric from Lara Kraut. I think he was one of the coolest horses ever. That's actually. That has to be my pick. [01:11:30] Speaker A: I've had Cedric Cuddles. [01:11:33] Speaker D: He was so cool. He was like a little pony that had all the power in the world. He was just big, big star. Like, there's. There's too many. That's a. That's. That's a loaded question. There's. There's too many answers for that one. [01:11:45] Speaker A: Cedric is such a legend. What's this? What's the most scared a horse has ever made you? I would. [01:11:52] Speaker D: I mean, I would have to say, like, I. I had a lot of different, you know, falls or crashes when I was young and throughout my career. But the. The one that freaked me out the most was the. The latest one. Like, it was just such a freak accident. And it just. It just reinforced how unpredictable the horse can be if you're not, like, paying attention. And it was one of those times where I was not, you know, I just wasn't on my game that day. Like, I was just a little bit, like, unfocused, and, you know, there was wind and something picked up and the horse spooked, and I was just. Was not in. In the right position at. And it was just. That was a reinforcer of, like, you have to, like, if you're around a horse, your focus has to be on those horses, and it has to be, you know, around safety and respecting them because they're incredibly powerful animals. And if you. And if you don't respect that, there is a lot of chance and there's danger and there's risk. But that one was like, whoa. Okay. I thought it was, you know, kind of invincible. And that horse showed me how quickly they can get me off if they want to, you know? So that. That one was a. An eye opener. [01:13:05] Speaker A: I do say this a lot. I think we've talked about it, don't we, Me and you, Sime. It's a wonder they don't dump us in a hedge the whole time. Like, aren't they amazing? [01:13:14] Speaker D: Incredible. Incredible. Incredible. Animals. Yeah. Yeah, I think one of the best. And I mean, look at the civilization. How many years, you know, men and. And women have been with horses and what they've done for us. So it's. It's a. Yeah, it's a pretty humbling relationship to have. [01:13:34] Speaker A: Final couple of questions. Who would you choose? You're not allowed out of this one by boy, Ben. You're not allowed to get out of this. Who would you choose to ride your horse if you couldn't ride it yourself? [01:13:44] Speaker D: Chief or dad? [01:13:46] Speaker A: Really? [01:13:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:13:48] Speaker A: I've always found him, like, he's amazing, but his piece with his daughter in the show is so. She's my little star. Oh, my God. He had me. I'm converted now. He was so sweet. [01:14:01] Speaker D: Yeah. I think he's just so natural on a horse, you know, he never, like, he never forces anything. You look at his horses, even in his flat work. Like, he lets horses be who they are, and he just adapts to them so well. Like, he. I just think his. His natural feeling and his. And his talent is just second to none. Like, he. It's just. It's like watching poetry, even. Even just watching him, you know, just flat. A horse or exercise in the morning. It's just. You can see how much connection he has with the horses and how much they love their job doing it. Doing it for him because he treats them with such respect. And I think that that's just, you know, such an incredible feat. [01:14:45] Speaker A: And finally this. We touched upon this earlier, but I'm going to ask these in quick succession to see what first comes to your head. What makes a great rider? [01:14:55] Speaker D: Horsemanship. [01:14:57] Speaker A: I was going to say, what makes a great horseman? [01:15:01] Speaker D: Patience. [01:15:02] Speaker A: There we go. I love it. These are good clips as well. I'm going to clip you out. This is how to get our podcast right. Ben, this has been amazing. Who wants to go first on the. What's annoyed you? But Simon's already done yours. Do you have another one, Simon? [01:15:18] Speaker B: I can have another one. So I was at Harper this week, and I was doing the three star, and we had dressage on the third. There were 26 in it or something. And I think six of us did the dressage on the Thursday, and then the rest of them did the dressage on the Friday. The Thursday was literally like 37 degrees. It was so hot, and it just. Why do we have to wear tailcoats? The FEI guys will not let us not wear tailcoats. What the. I was literally a dripping. It was horrific. Like, horrific. Miracle was very Good. But it was just awful. [01:16:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm with you. Do you. Do they have to wear coats in the ring at Spruce if it's a million degrees? [01:16:05] Speaker D: You do. But. And. And I. And I get where it comes from. I get the heritage. I get the legacy. [01:16:10] Speaker B: Oh, I totally get it as well. But it's just like. [01:16:14] Speaker D: But I also think, you know, as. As we adapt and become a sport on a global stage, we. We do have to move with the times a little bit in that sense. And I. And I think, you know, that you can still maintain history and heritage in other ways. And I think that, you know, there's even FEI rules around how big a sponsor's logo can be on a saddle pad. And I think that, you know, if you really want the sport to grow, you've got to be able to adapt that way. And, you know, I'd love. You see the jockeys in racing, and, you know, they have those bright colors and those, you know, their sponsors are labeled, and I think that that's something that we do need to look at a little bit in our sport as we move forward, is to be able to, you know, if you want those sponsors to be engaged with the sport, then they better have visibility as well. [01:17:00] Speaker B: And. [01:17:00] Speaker D: And, yeah, to your point, I mean that if it's 35 degrees, I mean, people that don't know the sport, they think, oh, the horse is doing all the work. But it's. It is a lot of work. [01:17:09] Speaker B: And no one you do is. [01:17:11] Speaker D: It's. Yeah, if it's 30 and it's 37 degrees Celsius out and you're wearing a tie and a jacket, I mean, it's. It's. It's tough. [01:17:19] Speaker B: Sponsors don't want their logos down by my sweaty armpits. [01:17:23] Speaker D: Yeah, exactly. [01:17:26] Speaker A: Which Ben would like to go first with. What's annoyed them. [01:17:28] Speaker D: Ben, please, please go first. [01:17:34] Speaker C: What's annoyed me this week. [01:17:36] Speaker A: Look at him stretching his guns. For those listening, Ben is just showing us the gun show right now as he puts his arms behind his head. [01:17:43] Speaker D: He's such a lad. [01:17:44] Speaker B: I don't know. [01:17:46] Speaker C: Lads, lads, lads. [01:17:48] Speaker B: Someone. Someone must have pissed you off this week. [01:17:51] Speaker C: Everyone just, like how they breathe and blink and stuff? No, not really. [01:18:00] Speaker B: What's. [01:18:02] Speaker C: What's. Maybe not a. Okay, I'll go back a bit in history, like, a couple of weeks ago, but I'm not saying where it was, but I turned up at an event, and it was a really long trek for us to get there, like, over. Over, like, six, seven hours, which I know in Canada, you won't get sympathy [01:18:25] Speaker A: from Ben in Canada. You have to drive for a lot longer than that to get to Moshe. [01:18:29] Speaker C: But when you, when we arrived at the event and they were like, oh, by the way, we've not got a water point set up for your stables yet. And I was like, you knew I was arriving with 15 horses. You knew the time I was arriving. I actually arrived later than the time I was meant to arrive. You've not, you booked me 18 months ago, like. And that's where if it's something for my people and my humans, my staff's welfare, I'm a little bit more lasso fair. I'm a bit like, well, you'll be fine, you're a big boy, you're grown ups, you'll sort yourselves out. But when people drop the ball on horse stuff, that does actually piss me off quite a lot because I think the horses don't even get a choice, do they? I just put them on the lorry and take them. [01:19:13] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:19:14] Speaker C: So, yeah, like lack of horse welfare, stuff like that. They got it sorted. But I had a minor moment when I. [01:19:26] Speaker D: That's a good one. [01:19:28] Speaker A: Ben, what's annoyed you this week? Or are you too nice a chap that you don't get annoyed? [01:19:32] Speaker D: I try to be as zen as I possibly can. Even though it's kind of sometimes like a duck on water. Like it looks calm on the top and the. [01:19:40] Speaker A: Exactly. [01:19:40] Speaker B: Is impossible. [01:19:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:19:44] Speaker D: But if I had to pick something, I, I just brought my, my car into the shop and it has been an absolute nightmare. Like I, I, I brought it in for like just a routine oil change and now I have this extensive list from the shop of what I need to fix and the cost associated with all these parts and pieces that they need to order and all that stuff. And so that was a bit annoying. [01:20:04] Speaker C: But it's time for a new car. [01:20:07] Speaker D: I know. [01:20:07] Speaker C: Just, yeah, let it die annoying. [01:20:11] Speaker D: I love it too much. Yeah. If it was a horse, I wouldn't even think twice. But it should just run all the time. [01:20:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:20:22] Speaker A: You have one job. Car run. Right. Ben, this has been so. Honestly, I cannot believe we've been chatting for an hour and a half. I'm so sorry, but you are so amazing. [01:20:33] Speaker D: No, thank you. [01:20:34] Speaker A: Just to finish, if you could make one person who knows absolutely nothing about horses, or one of our listeners who just loves to hug their pony and doesn't follow the sport, if you could tell them to watch one episode of Faultless, what would you want them to understand about our sport? After They've watched it. What would you want them to take away from watching your show or coming to Spruce Meadows? [01:20:59] Speaker D: Well, first of all, I think I would just. I would encourage them, if you're close by to Calgary, to come watch the Masters. I think that there's an incredible amount of activities and so much fun to be had if you can make it, if you can't, and watch the live stream, because you'll watch some of the best sport in the world. And I think that the coolest thing about the sport is it. It really is the only Olympic sport where men and women compete against each other on an even playing field, which is so, so cool. And I think that just the bond between horse and rider is something so special. And, you know, when you watch the highest level of competition, just realize how much time and effort has gone into those 70 seconds that are in the arena. [01:21:42] Speaker A: 100%. Oh, it's been an absolute pleasure. [01:21:45] Speaker D: I think that you guys have a great, great podcast going. I wish you guys the best of luck in all your endeavors, and it's been a pleasure to be a part of it today. And thank you so much for having me. And, yeah, we're. Look, I'm looking forward to chatting with you guys again at some point. [01:21:59] Speaker A: Thank you so much. And I will see you at Spruce, because I'm coming. Yay. Hope you're jealous, boys. But, Ben, all that is left to say is shut up and ride. And thank you for coming on the show. Thank you guys so much. [01:22:12] Speaker D: Thank you. Thank you very much. Have a great day, everybody.